SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My WP was already dating someone else when we went on our first date. I didn't know, obviously. I only know now because after being together for 18 months (living together for 9 months) I received a phone call from the AP who told me that she and my WP were still dating and sleeping together for the first 4 months of our relationship and that since she broke it off with him, he has been trying to get her back for over a year.

By 4 months, we were in a committed relationship. We spent time with each others families and he told me he was crazy in love with me (not in a love bombing way). After we moved in together, he lied to go see this woman- though they did not sleep together. We were planning to get engaged and married early this year. My WP says he was definitely not trying to get back together with her, he doesn't know why he said the things he did. That it was like emotional dumping. She sent me all of their messages. He was telling her that he loved her and "never looked elsewhere" while telling me he has never been happier in his life. Truth was, neither had I. I was really happy in this relationship. The messages don't indicate that he was trying to get back with her for a year, but it does look like there were a few months after they stopped seeing each other that he was.

Has anyone else had this type of situation?

I'm having a really hard time understanding this. Until now, I always felt valued by him. I felt that he knew what a great thing he had and was 100% committed. He swears he will never do anything else like this ever again. I don't know if he understands his own actions.

It has been 7 weeks since D-Day.

Any insight or advice is appreciated.

Apologies if this post isn't in the proper format - I tried.

[This message edited by unbeknownsttome at 3:07 PM, Wednesday, February 26th]

First off I'm sorry you find yourself here. Your relationship sounds similar to how mine began with xWS. I found out he hadn't broken it off with a girl he was seeing when he starting seeing me. My friend who knew him before I did said he tried to cheat with her while he was with a girlfriend. Told me he was a cheater.

And the way your partner's ex friend describes him is my xWS to a T. I discovered years after my xWS's 2nd, 3rd A (who knows) through my xWS therapist (I made him see) who diagnosed him as NPD.

I am not sure what advice to give you, I would say run given he's got a lot of bad character traits. I know I should have ran.

I'm so sorry.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 12:46 AM, Tuesday, February 25th]

Welcome to SI and I'm sorry that you're here. In the JFO (Just Found Out) forum, there are some posts pinned to the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read. Also, there are some unpinned posts with bull's eye icons that are great, too. The Healing Library is at the top of the page and has a lot of resources.

It sounds like you were the OW (other woman) at the beginning of the relationship. If he was still contacting her as recently as December, it sounds like he is still trying to pursue her.

It sounds like he has failed the boyfriend test. If your best friend were telling you this, what advice would you give?

Oh, sweet sister, I’m so sorry that you’re here. . .but PLEASE, run as hard as you can away from this person. You are young. You aren’t married. You don’t have children or years of financial and emotional entanglement to confuse the issue. You have all of those things ahead of you. This guy is not a reliable partner for all of the life challenges and joys ahead.

His friend has laid it out for you. He lies. He hides. He rationalizes and minimizes and gives himself permission to do horrible things, all while feeling a little like the victim who is misunderstood and maligned. Please believe me when I tell you that this is an unbelievably toxic combination (ask me how I know). He is most likely the most dishonest with himself and that is what allows him to believe that his motives are pure and his intentions are good. His life truly is governed by pathology.

But yours doesn’t have to be. Please believe me that if you marry him, you will be signing on to years of this kind of abuse. Even if he were JUST a habitual liar, the heartache of that perpetual betrayal of discovering another lie and another and another is horrific.

You can go on to find a person who truly sees and loves you, just you, only you for who you are. Please don’t tie yourself to someone who has already shown himself to be unworthy. You are in the phase when it should be easiest to be completely immersed in the "honeymoon" phase of early relationships. And he has been hedging his bets with you while also trying to convince her to come back to him.

The fact that he says he "doesn’t know" why he said all of those things to her and pursued her should really raise a red flag. Really???? No idea??? Just doesn’t understand WHY at all???? Are you buying that? He pursued her for months with no clue (and apparently no introspection) about why he was doing it? Even after you moved in together? Please say you see the bullshit in that. He wasn’t possessed or sleep-walking or blacked out, right? He is just lying. Period. To you or himself or both. Does it matter?

Who knows or cares if he was sold on you but needed to feel that he could win her back, or if he was hoping to get her back and dump you while stringing you along in case it didn’t work?? Does this really matter? Do you want to be with someone who can treat ANY partner (ex or otherwise) this way? He has horrifically disrespected and mistreated BOTH of you. Please don’t settle for this for yourself.

The world is full of options for a life partner. You already know who he is and what he’s capable of. Please don’t fool yourself into believing that this is about her and that you are different to him. Why take that chance when it’s completely unnecessary?

You will hear from tons of us on this site who wish that they had had this kind of warning before they committed to their partners, had children with them, mingled families and lives and finances and spent YEARS trying to convince themselves that their WS would change. You have that chance. Don’t think about now—think about how you will feel if/when you discover that he has done this again but ten years further down the road. . .or twenty or more because yes, that happens more times that you can believe.

We all can understand how you want to believe in the love you feel for him, that your relationship is special and different. It should be. But you have very clear, real evidence of who he actually is. Please don’t look the other way and stuff your own better judgement to stay with him. Press the breaks and maybe have a talk with that friend of his. You can save yourself so much pain and heartache.

Sending you hugs of strength and care. I’m sorry he’s done this to you.

So sorry you're here. But you'll get good support. Please keep posting - folks may not always say what you hope to hear, but most replies come from a place of wanting to help. And we speak honestly from our own hard won experience and wisdom gleaned from this community.

Is he a serial cheater and a pathological liar? Ummm, cheaters ARE liars! And SERIAL cheaters/liars do tend to have underlying "pathologies". Is HE a Pathological Liar? His best friend called him one. Obviously, he has problems with intimacy and sustaining close personal relationships - with (at minimum) three very significant people - former GF, his fiancé (you) and his best friend = BIG red flag! Does he lie about other things, or push boundaries in other areas of life? How does he treat other people? Is he a "rules for thee but not for me" type of guy? Sounds like there's a history of lying - a PATTERN. Pattern of lying = red flag.

If I understand correctly, you've been together for 18 months before the old GF outed him? And, he was never faithful, even from the beginning of the relationship. So a two year-ish relationship, correct? This should be the honeymoon phase! When he's supposedly putting his best foot forward while getting to know each other before further entanglements like marriage, financial investments, children etc. Instead, you stumbled onto a secret second life he hid, and would still be hidden if she didn't spill the tea. Basically, he romanced and then planned to marry you ** he defrauded you** while knowingly carrying on a secret life. Deceptive sexuality+emotional fraud = more BIG red flags.

Besides the inability to sustain close relationships, the serial cheating, lying, deceptive sexuality and emotional fraud (!) other red flags are flapping. Seems he's an adept love-bomber. Saying "he's crazy in love with me" and seeking a serious commitment after only 4 months is not necessarily something to celebrate. This is not typical getting to know you behavior. It's a possible warning sign to pay attention to:

"Intense love bombing early in a relationship means showering someone with excessive attention, compliments, affection, and grand gestures in a short period of time, often appearing too good to be true, with the goal of quickly gaining their trust and dependence, which can be a red flag for potential manipulation or abusive behavior."

So is he a serial cheater and pathological liar? Or is he a person who made mistakes in his past and is capable of change?

Dear Unbeknownstome, answering this question doesn't change his actions, doesn't change who he's revealed himself to be. Remember what Maya Angelou wisely said "when someone shows you who they are, believe them." So, pay attention to his ACTIONS not his words. He's a liar whose actions show who he really is early on in the relationship. Time to cut your losses and run! Can he change? Maybe, but not likely unless he is willing to invest long term (could take YEARS) and dig deep to change his actions - to change his way of selfishly looking at the world. And he's gotta want to do this difficult work for HIMSELF - not just to placate you. A hard truth - if certain personality disorders are present, significant change may not be a realistic goal. AND - Promises are easy. Words are easy. Love bombing is easy. What ACTIONS is he taking to become a better human being? Therapy? Transparency?

Know this is hard to hear = from your description doesn't seem likely he's a strong candidate for change. He's capable of wearing masks, and thanks to old girlfriend and best friend you're getting a peek behind those masks. You're seeing someone who is NOT who you thought he was. Old GF is right. IMO he is NOT a safe person.

Do you want to head further down this painful path with someone you DON'T REALLY KNOW? Two years in you're just beginning to scratch the surface. What other secrets will you unearth? Can he ever be a safe partner? Do you really want to stick around to find out - and gamble with your one precious life, safety and happiness? Please don't ignore all those red flags waving in your face. Pay attention to the self-preservation instinct that brought you here. Protect yourself! Hoping the best for you.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 4:16 AM, Wednesday, February 26th]

Unbeknownst to me, please run as far away from this person as fast as you can. As others have said you have a chance to get out before the entanglements of marriage, children, finances and the other life issues trap you. I was unknowingly lied to and led to believe I would be his one and only after years of cheating and abandonment. He came begging back to me, apologizing profusely and swearing his love for me. Little did I know on that day 44 years ago he started sleeping with his last whore soon after he returned. Fast forward to 2023 when I found out he contacted her and was carrying on a full blown emotional affair that he deliberately and coldly flaunted it in my face, mocking me for my devastation. Please, please don’t let yourself end up like me when you have a chance to break free and find someone who will truly cherish you and give you happiness.

It’s so easy for us to SHOUT out at you what we – with our collective experience of misery, betrayal and pain AND recovery, reconciliation and divorce can probably see as the clear path out of infidelity for you.
But... I am not so certain you will see and comprehend what we are suggesting.

Let me give you my background:
I walked in on my fiancé having sex with another man four weeks and six days before our scheduled wedding day. This was after a nearly 5 year supposedly monogamous relationship, and 2 years of living together. My initial reaction was to leave our apartment and end our relationship. Just like we all I had my doubts, but the information I got over the next 48 hours made me realize that despite the IMMENSE pain I was experiencing my initial decision was correct.
That info was being told that this wasn’t the first time she cheated, that she did this on a semi-regular basis, that she would go to bars and clubs and hit on random men for sex.

My last civil and loving conversation with her was maybe 10 minutes before leaving for work, and was finalizing the decision to have a DJ rather than a band at our reception. Then about 8 hours later she’s telling me that what I witnessed was "not what you think"...

Don’t for a minute allow yourself to think that YOUR love for your man was any more or less than the love I had for my fiancé. Don’t for a minute allow yourself to think my decision was any easier than whatever decision you have to reach. This is all hard.
However – I based my decision on the fact that I had intended to live the rest of my LIFE with this woman. That now was the time when our love was at some form of natural peak and that going onwards our love for each other would probably be based on more effort – a more conscious form of love. That’s actually a good thing. A logical and conscious love and caring beats the testosterone based love of early days. But if she could do this now – in the early and heady days – then she was likely to do this going onwards.

In some crude way it’s like test-driving the car of your dreams. This nice shiny red Corvette you have coveted since youth, only to realize that the one you are driving is a manual with strange metal-noise when shifting, the heater doesn’t work and the brakes are shoddy and you find rust hidden in the body. You could sit in the car thinking that the interior is so nice, and maybe the gears will fix themselves, the rust can be removed or whatever, but the wise decision would be to look for another car, or to realize that this model can’t fit a baby-seat or whatever. That this fantasy didn’t pan out.
This is the reason we start relationships by dating and experimenting – to find the faulty breaks and broken heaters before we fully commit to a LIFETIME. It makes more sense in all and every way to drive to the dealership and hand in the keys.

I believe people can change. She could change – but that doesn’t mean that I had to be there while she did. I might have given her more time if we had been married, had already gotten that house not far from her parents and maybe started a family... but we hadn’t. And... she didn’t change. I haven’t seen her or been in touch for decades, but I met a mutual friend some years ago who described a life of bad choices and broken marriages.

Your boyfriend can change. In fact – if this is the soul-mate – he can go away, do his change and then come back and convince you of that change... IF you are so precious to him, he would do that. Keep in mind though that this immense a change doesn’t happen overnight. This is a year or so in therapy and personal development.
You don’t have to wait... you can live your life as a single person. If he too is your soul-mate then you could possibly be there once he starts knocking again, sincere in his efforts to convince you he is a new man. But I would hope that you would be more in line with my story – I met my present wife about 20 months after d-day and we are still together over 30 years later.

You deserve better.

FWIW every person I know that was cheated on while dating their BF/GF became a spouse that was cheated on.

I can name 15 friends who forgave their cheating BF/GF and regretted it.

They had marriages & kids & houses & pets and most were cheated on over and over again.

Drop this loser and never look back.

"You will hear from tons of us on this site who wish that they had had this kind of warning before they committed to their partners, had children with them, mingled families and lives and finances and spent YEARS trying to convince themselves that their WS would change"

I am one of these ^^ people.

Sitting here reading some of the posts last night I also came to the shocking realization that I might have UNKNOWINGLY been the OW who he was dating while still in a long distance relationship that he told me had ended before we met. It would have been consistent with his pattern. The thing is that with someone who is a liar, you never know.

While it does not feel like it, you have been given the gift of early look at the person he really is.

Many of us have made the mistake of wanting so badly to believe our SO and believing they would/could change. These folks are showing you who he really is; believe them.

I know it hurts like heck now but you will save yourself many more hurts by listening to what you are being told.

That note your read from the best friend is all you need.

I am sorry you are dealing with this but run...run....run

You really scraped the bottom of the barrel for this guy.

Think more of yourself.

So sorry your WP has turned out to be a serial cheater.

Please run as fast as you can and never look back. I know it hurts, but eventually you will be thankful that you dodged a bullet before marrying this man. You would have been set up in a life of heartbreak. Find a good therapist who can help you navigate this trauma he has caused you.

Sending a virtual hug.......(((( )))))

Edited to add: Please get tested for STDS asap.

[This message edited by annb at 1:23 PM, Tuesday, February 25th]

His ex girlfriend gave you a gift. BTW she's isn't the one who is the AP. She was in a legitimate relationship with him before you were. You were the unknowing AP. Maybe that will put this in better perspective for you. It doesn't matter how you originally perceived him. THIS is who he REALLY is....a lying, cheating, scumbag. The sooner you accept that, the easier it will be to see clearly that you need to cut him loose immediately.
These types are the worst and he should disgust you. It's one thing if you signed up to be the side chick, and knew he had a girlfriend, but he took that agency away from you by withholding the information that he was already in a relationship. He is Just a gross asshole. You can do better.

That he is a serial cheater and not a safe person. I do not have proof that any of that is true.

Yes, you do:

She sent me all of their messages.

He swears he will never do anything else like this ever again. (He admits he cheated)

His own best friend wrote him a message...

He can be so hard to read sometimes.

You're wandering through a forest of red flags searching for a green flag to cling to.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 5:54 PM, Tuesday, February 25th]

Just noticed you updated your original post this morning with the addition "I just found us a therapist and he will be participating."

Hope this doesn't feel harsh. The goal here is to help get you out of infidelity, not to tag team with feedback that makes you feel badly. Dear lady, he needs INDIVIDUAL therapy, not couples counseling. The relationship didn't cheat and lie - HE DID. And, if he's serious about making change HE must drive his own recovery bus! Why isn't he finding his own therapist and booking his own appointments? Remember, he has to want change for HIMSELF, not to placate you. He's got SERIOUS work to do. And YOU can't fix him. Only he can fix himself - hopefully with competent professional support. The red flags outlined above point to YEARS of hard work, introspection and rehabilitation on his part. Or as mentioned, meaningful change may not be achievable if certain personality disorders (?) are present.

Your boyfriend can change. In fact – if this is the soul-mate – he can go away, do his change and then come back and convince you of that change... IF you are so precious to him, he would do that. Keep in mind though that this immense a change doesn’t happen overnight. This is a year or so in therapy and personal development.

You don’t have to wait... you can live your life as a single person. If he too is your soul-mate then you could possibly be there once he starts knocking again, sincere in his efforts to convince you he is a new man. But I would hope that you would be more in line with my story – I met my present wife about 20 months after d-day and we are still together over 30 years later.

Wise observation.

My stranger on the internet response to your situation supplements Bigger's observation = if you're committed to "helping" the best way to help him is to let this be HIS journey. To become a functioning human he must take responsibility for his shitty, harmful maladaptive behaviors.And focus on changing his selfish mindset - to remediate his thinking so the nightmare of infidelity doesn't happen again. Seems that separating yourself from HIS drama/emotional abuse (yes, what he did to you is emotional abuse), and stepping away to focus on YOUR healing from his abuse while he focuses on his rehabilitation - separately - could be wise - for both of you.

Please take care of YOU. Do NOT marry this guy. Suggest dropping the couple's counseling. Some couple's counselors, ironically, are often ill equipped to deal with the trauma of infidelity. Many employ an "unmet needs" approach - that "unmet needs" in the relationship motivated the betrayal. Or they may treat the relationship as the client, so will assign homework exercises addressing deficits in the relationship, like communication patterns, etc.Even if you score a competent counselor, couple's counseling is the last thing you need right now, IMHO. He ripped out your heart - you are not in a safe place where you're ready to be vulnerable to him in couple's counseling. This is worth repeating - Old GF is right - he is not a safe person.

Please seek INDIVIDUAL counseling for YOU. An IC trained in trauma recovery would be ideal. Infidelity is trauma, make no mistake. You're in shock - trying to make sense out of your new reality. IC could help you sort through your options, help to set boundaries and figure out why you feel compelled to swallow your own needs and sacrifice your personal safety despite the warning signs. *** Don't set yourself on fire to keep him warm.*** Yes, you love him, want to help him - But, sometimes love isn't enough.

Finally, be alert to the sunk cost fallacy:

"The sunk cost fallacy is the improper mindset a company or individual may have when working through a decision. This fallacy is based on the premise that committing to the current plan is justified because resources have already been committed."

ETA:

Search MinwallaModel "The Secret Sexual Basement" By Dr. Omar Minwalla and his white paper on deceptive sexuality will pop up. Eye opening resource.....

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:34 AM, Wednesday, February 26th]

Bumping back on top after a SPAM attack.

I hope you’re holding up well, unbeknownst, and especially, that you are acknowledging and caring for your own feelings.

You’re getting everyone’s most caring and honest feedback here, and we all know very well that it can be hard to hear, especially at the beginning when everything has been yanked out from under you. It’s really hard to accept that the person you thought you were with, the one that you constructed in your mind, doesn’t really exist, and a person capable of betraying you and lying to you about just about everything has taken their place.

What others have pointed out and worries me more is that you seem to be doing what a lot of us do: you seem to be rolling up your sleeves and taking on the project of helping fix things—making counseling appointments, musing that he doesn’t seem to understand his actions and that he doesn’t know why he did what he did. Gently, those are excuses for him that you’re making while you try to see the best and try to convince yourself he will change.

Most of us do this in one way or another. We try to take action and "fix" what we didn’t break and what we can’t possibly fix. Because the problem is in him. HE is the only one who can fix himself, an dit’s really really hard to fix a pattern of lying and selfishness and justifying indulging in this kind of behavior by minimizing (it didn’t mean anything, I don’t really care about her, I don’t know why I did what I did, It was just emotional dumping.).

The ONLY important thing right now that would be a hopeful sign would be if HE, not you, were obsessed with and taking major action to address how he could be so f-ed up and treat you so disrespectfully. What does that look like? He (not you) makes immediate appointments to find an IC that will hold his feet to the fire. He (not you) reads everything he can get his hands on and talks to you about it and brings up the infidelity regularly and volunteers information about it when you ask WITHOUT excuses, justifications, minimizations, or blameshifting. HE starts sharing and getting support for interrupting and stopping these behaviors in the future. HE talks to that friend who was so honest with him to ask him what it was that he saw that made him say that and asks him to call him out when he sees that behavior anywhere. Those are some things he could do. He could also offer complete transparency with all of his online presence. He could offer to shut down social media.

There are a lot of things that a truly remorseful wayward partner does. Red flags are the waywards that make a lot of empty promises like I’ll never ever ever do anything like this again when he obviously has not insight or understanding of WHAT exactly he has done or WHAT in his character allows and compels him to do these things. He can’t keep promises like that. He can’t promise you he won’t lie because it seems that, like so many cheaters, lying is a very engrained habit. He will need a lot of help to stop. The waywards that beg and plead and mouth apologies rather than act independently and decisively without resistance or defensiveness are the ones that don’t get it and will probably cheat again because they didn’t get a clue the first time they were caught.

Words mean absolutely nothing right now. I can’t emphasize that enough. NOTHING. Cheaters are great at talking. And we really really really want to believe them.

Please focus on you, as other have said. Let him figure his shit out. . .or not. Pay attention to that. But please get some IC to deal with the trauma and think through what kind of life and partner you want for your LIFE, not just for this current, very wounded and vulnerable moment. Get help with projecting five or ten years down the road and where you could be if you stay with him and he cheats again.

I know it’s so hard, but you have to protect yourself and care for yourself rather than depend on the person who has hurt your horribly to make it better. We are all pulling for you to get out of infidelity and move forward to happiness. Please believe me, as someone who gave far too many chances and required far too little tangible action, you can truly spend years of your life in pain, hoping that things are going to get better and he’s going to get it at any moment.

Only you can say if he’s actually showing you any real work and introspection. Only you can decide what kind of life you want and whether or not he is capable of being what you need: a faithful, honest, respectful, loving and supporting partner who only wants to be with you and sets up clear boundaries to protect you and your relationship.

Wishing you the best.

[This message edited by NowWhat106 at 12:44 AM, Thursday, February 27th]

Bump

Beautiful post NowWhat.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:14 PM, Saturday, March 1st]