SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For me, it wasn’t really a bs versus AP thing. The draw was in the escapism first and foremost.

Cheating for a lot of people involved validation but underneath that is self adulation. Being someone you do not believe you are at your core. I wanted to be younger, cooler, funnier, sexier, etc. My husband knows me, and in many ways I felt like I could not live up to his expectations. Not because he really even had them. It was an issue with my self perception.

I am not a huge Esther Pearl fan, but I she says a lot of people cheat to meet a different version of themselves. That really hit the nail on the head for me.

There was nothing special about my AP, I actually was aware my husband was a better man. But when you live your life doing what you think others need and expect rather than being more authentic it makes you feel like you have sequester a big part of yourself. I blamed that on my marriage instead of recognizing that I created this dynamic in myself.

And the Ap didn’t get my best self either, he got a regurgitated version of me a I was in my youth. Not a great look for a middle aged lady. I was so cringe it was pathetic.

The ap was convenient person who was willing to be an awful person with me. The affair was precipitated by time alone with him in a business trip, so these things I recognized later. In the meantime, you are telling yourself no one will find out, no one will get hurt, or alternatively I thought I really wanted to be free and live in my own. Some people are cake eaters, I was more along the lines of having an exit affair but nothing was well thought through.

Cheating is frequently caused by low self esteem. Not feeling worthy of your partner. Mine happened during a deep depression and now those dopamine hits were a big propellant.

If I could go back and operate intelligently it would never have happened. It was not only the worst thing I did to my husband but it’s the worst thing I ever did to myself.

I hope that helps answer your question. I hope your husband is digging to find these answers too because I had to change at my core and understanding what I was seeking was a big clue in what I needed to work on.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:17 PM, Monday, June 15th]

GotTheMorbs

I appreciate the response. WH did attempt to relay his needs. At the time though, I was breastfeeding and solo raising essentially twin infants and his one time attempt at telling me he wishes I desired him 100% fell on deaf ears. At the time, I remember telling him "maybe if you were nice to me I'd want to do you more". Not the best response and definitely was coated in resentment, but I was a postpartum mom who was sleep deprived, my body was destroyed, changed, and on top of it I was with someone who wanted to feel desired without doing any work to make himself desirable to me.

That right there gave me an aha moment because AP in all his weakness gave him desirability without any work at all, all she had to do was tell him it was hot that he was bi and he was IN IT. Me, his family, none of us existed in that moment.

I guess I still don't understand because WH had been with others during our openness (men only, the one boundary I had) so I'm sure he felt the excitement, I wonder why even in those agreed upon moments he didn't have instances of "I wish I felt like this with my wife" or "I wish I was home with my family" like I did during my moments during that time in our marriage. It's a really big mind fk for me.

The food analogy I kind of get, but the thing that throws me off is that they are "empty calories" you were getting from AP. Just like how I recognized while WITH my other partner that the moments of connection and care were all just a facade, given to me because it's what I required for a sexual relationship. I was hyper aware that what he was feeding me was purely for his own benefit and not out of a deep care and respect of me in any meaningful way. Is that recognition from a deep knowing of myself, an ability to look within that WS lack? Was there nothing telling you that what you were receiving was purely fake and has no real substance? Was there any point where the thought came that what you were seeking was actually something your BS could have provided and it actually fulfill you? Just some thoughts.

Hikingout
I always appreciate your responses even if I don't have the capacity to respond. For this scenario I get it. Escapism does seem to be the initial draw, he in that moment has said he was in a state where all that existed was a version of him that was buried one where he was not married, no loving wife, not even his family existed in that moment. His depression he was open with and had obviously been getting worse, he actually had finally reached out to his dr about meds right before the A happened (at my direction) after literal YEARS he said of white knuckling. To this day he can't point to when the depression started, but I have a feeling he went into the relationship with me with it draped over him. His was an a ONS so it's hard to compare but the fact is boundaries had been so eroded over time that I shouldn't have been so surprised, I just rug swept so much previously that in my mind what he was telling me leading up to the A was truth. That I was enough, that I was all he needed, that no other woman could give him what I could. I like to believe that all was still true, yet it's difficult when in my delusional belief that we were back to being "us" he was still deeply unhappy and utilizing sexual release as his only source of regulation. The dopamine hits kept him going, and then a real life opportunity was sitting in front of him and under the influence of heavy drinking and secretly taking drugs that night (stimulant) it was practically compulsive.

He is doing the work, but I still struggle with understanding if the dopamine hits were obviously provided by a farce and left one feeling worse vs better (WH has stated all instances of sexual experiences outside of with me felt empty, even the ones during our open marriage) it just doesn't make sense why during that time communicating what was lacking or what it was that was missing in us for him to feel the need to sexually step outside of our marriage.

I just compare to my own experiences in our openness because IN the moment it did feel good, being taken out by a handsome successful man, cuddling and talking while feeling like he heard and appreciated me... But there was always a whisper of "this is what I want, but this is not who I want it from, this person doesn't give two shts about me". I said as much to my husband and I just don't get why the same couldn't be returned unless the feeling was never even there in his mind. That hurts.

I guess the real question that remains is why wasn't vulnerability an option? Was seeking beyond the marriage the only answer?

Thanks y'all.

I understand a lot of what you are saying. Mine was along the lines of a one night stand, more like a one business trip stand with some emotional/sexting mixed in for a few weeks prior and after.

We also had a period of being with other people before we got married and I would tell you truthfully all those encounters and with the AP it was empty as well. When that surge of dopamine and adrenaline kicks in after a feeling of emotional deadness, it was compelling. But the physical intimacy was more anxiety producing and performative.

I do not excuse what I did, or think it was the only solution but it was easy. And yes, I understand the layers he speaks about, for me it was like that to…compartmentalizations.

The being vulnerable…

Like your husband I stated my issues blvery few times and I am sure my husband just heard it as either a mood or a normal marital complaint. But underneath that I was drowning. But many of us ws are avoidant attachment style. And honestly ten years later it still takes me a concerted effort to lean in to the marriage and communicate in certain areas. But I understand it’s important for me to not start self abandoning again.

The terrible answer to this is I didn’t want to be a burden, or a downer, so over time I put on a happy face and held a lot in. That wasn’t my husbands fault. He is a calm and reasonable person who I can’t think of many times over our 27 year relationship that when even raised his voice at me. This stuff is built into the operating system that was acquired during childhood. And I could go into logistics on how mine worked and how that played into the lack of vulnerability but I am not sure that would be as helpful for how I started to uncover it and change it.

A big epiphany happened for me when I was reading "rising strong" by brene brown. It made me aware of how the toxic shame I had carried all my life kept me from being able to have a deeper connection because being vulnerable was very hard for me. As an avoidant, I tend to be very self protective, and because of that I would always just turn to be overly accommodating.

I can only say through this mess I truly know the only person I have loved as an adult has been my husband, and I will never let either of us forget that again.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:54 PM, Monday, June 15th]

It's certainly understandable that you didn't want much sex during that early postpartum window; it's literally insane what we go through to carry, birth, and look after babies. It's hard to feel sexy when your body is heavier and sleep deprived, organs out of place, skin stretched, breasts sore and leaking, ears constantly on alert for crying, haven't had a moment to yourself to shower... You've got other priorities when that's all going on. I struggled with only one newborn; I have no clue how anyone does it with two or more! You're a rockstar mom for sure, and I hope that you're proud of yourself.

Many men have wives that don't want sex for a while after giving birth, and while some of them don't really get it (How could they, when they'll never be pregnant or postpartum themselves?), they still conduct themselves faithfully. It might be hard for them to wait, but they, ahem, take care of themselves in the meantime and get through it.

Your WH told you himself: it was less about the sex and more about feeling desired. That's how it was for me, and part of why my EA turned sexual in nature. My H and I were sexually active before and during the A, but I felt like he didn't even notice when I was stark naked, or get excited about the prospect of sex with me the way other women's husbands seemed to. I remember going on mumsnet and describing what I was seeing and feeling, and the women who replied accused me of secretly being a man or of being AI because they were having to beat their sex-pest husbands off with sticks and they couldn't imagine the lust discrepancy going the other way... The reality was, he was just stressed, preoccupied, not taking great care of his physical health, and having anxiety about ED (which ironically was giving him ED symptoms.) And of course, when I was conducting the A and his gut was telling him something was off, that pushed him further away. But I assumed either there was something unappealing about me, or that he'd just lost interest in me in general. And I felt like I hadn't physically changed recently, that I theoretically should still be attractive to men, so I assumed it was the latter. I didn't have a lot of confidence I could win his interest back. It was very painful.

When someone came along who seemed easily sexually excited about me, it made me feel desired, and that feeling was difficult for me to pass up. I did wish the desire was coming from my BH, but the "junk food" affair validation was better than not feeling desired at all. I knew deep down it was wrong and fake, that this AP and I were mutually using each other, and I felt horribly guilty about going behind my H's back, but I pushed those thoughts away and just enjoyed the feelings in the moment. It was easier than mourning the perceived death of our marriage. I don't know if this is a question you asked him, but it's possible he did wish the feeling of desirability came from you even while he was with someone else, but settled for easier, cheaper validation. According to "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, some WS completely compartmentalize their marriage and their affairs, carefully keeping them separate in their minds, never thinking about one while engaged in the other so as to avoid that internal conflict, guilt, and cognitive dissonance, as a means of self-protection. That's also a possibility for your WS.

One day a stranger comes along and whispers, "Hey, follow me!" and he leads you to a secret room with a buffet full of fried foods and sugary deserts, like a scene straight out of Biggest Loser. [temptation]

I get the metaphor, but I have a question about the perception of it:

The buffet is an offering of something that wether unhealthy or not, is freely given to you (i get the perspective of this is the ego taking, it doesn’t care if it’s given or stolen).

Basically in the metaphor the AP is altruistically giving here (junk, but still something that you enjoy in the moment).

Theirs is nothing really wrong with the AP here, he’s just selflessly offering you solace, a bit like grandma offering you candy when mom isn’t looking.

It’s still "wrong" but a lot less egotistical and transactional. Actually is not transactional at all, he’s just being nice, nothing in it for him.

I always figured that the AP approach is more like the pedophile offering candies to a child for following him in that dark room. With the caveat the wayward is an adult and not a child of course.

So the question is: while you were stuffing at the buffet, didn’t you ever feel that the AP was taking something from you? Sure it offered all the scraps you could eat, but have you noticed if in exchange he was devouring you?

Does it ever feel like you are the main course and all you hold dear (your relationship included) is the side dish, the spice the affair partner devours while you are distracted by the scraps buffet?

Does the instinct detects the transaction or there is no red flag?

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 7:39 AM, Tuesday, June 16th]

I always figured that the AP approach is more like the pedophile offering candies to a child for following him in that dark room. With the caveat the wayward is an adult and not a child of course.

Yeah, it is a little bit like that. Except I'm an adult who should know better, and I was simultaneously the victim and the predator. We were using each other. And I knew that; it's just that the committee members who were telling me such things and waving the red flags were pushed away and ignored. I was like a little kid sticking my fingers in my ears going "la la la la....I can't hear you!"