SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

[This message edited by EmoRollercoaster at 12:25 AM, Thursday, September 24th]

From experience (and I have a lot of it…) it’s extremely rare that couples can reconcile if the affair partner remains in close proximity.
Is she married? What is their work relationship? Is one or the other superior in hierarchy?

Frankly – this being so early days – maybe the only thing that you should be seeking in your joint therapy sessions is how you two can coexist as a couple until he get’s the promotion and can be better separated from her.

I'm not sure how to reply to others on thread yet so bare with me.

He is her boss. And she is also married but I haven't said anything to her H.
It's funny because her H had reached out to me twice on two seperate occasions when they were on work trips to warn me that they were having an affair but couldn't provide me with definitive evidence of it so I just kind of blew it off but remained suspicious. So today I just feel stupid.

I feel like we will have a lot to unpack at our therapy session. He also is in IC at my request because he obviously has a lot to work on himself.

I am honestly so codependent- I'm worried that if we just coexist in the house then that will cause more damage and he will just run back to her again. We had issues in our marriage before the A that I think contributed, but he's obviously shown that he is weak and I can't trust what he's doing while I can't keep an eye on him.

You have a real problem here. As long as he continues to work with her, you're not going to feel safe.

The up and down yo-yoing is what we call the emotional roller coaster, and it's normal. Well as "normal" as this situation can be. You're not overreacting or being unreasonable. Betrayal trauma is real trauma and PTSD symptoms are common. It can take 2 to 5 years to recover. Not a few weeks or months.

I would question the depth of his "remorse" if dealing with your pain is too much for him to handle. Him acting shady when you check his phone is a red flag, too.

I'm not saying that recovery absolutely can't happen if he continues to work there, but it does make things exponentially harder, and his actions right now aren't overly inspiring. A truly remorseful spouse is willing to do whatever it takes to try and repair the damage that's been done. That includes changing jobs if reasonably possible, answering questions, even if you've asked the same questions a hundred times, and dealing with your pain and confusion without getting impatient or dismissive.

As for couples counseling I recommend a great deal of caution because many couples counselors will try to fix the relationship at any cost, even if it means laying partial blame at the feet of the betrayed spouse. This is not a good thing. We generally recommend individual counseling first. A trauma counselor for you, and a counselor for him to help him get to the bottom of why he thought having an affair was a good idea to begin with. Good marriage counselors are hard to find when it comes to infidelity. Besides that, your marriage didn't cheat. He did. He made the choices. Whatever might be going on in your marriage, no one or nothing made him cheat. That decision os 100% on him and him alone. This is not your fault.

Check out the healing library found in the drop down at the top of the page. There are some good articles there, and read the pinned and bullseye posts. Several of them were recently bumped so they should be on the first page.

Hang in there and keep posting. This is a good group of folks who understand what you're going through. Ask any questions or just vent if you need to. We get it. Most of us have been there. You're being heard.

[This message edited by Pogre at 6:48 PM, Wednesday, September 23rd]

Hi EmoRollercoaster,

I’m so sorry you have had to found us.

I’m posting links to two recent "live" threads [I hope that’s ok Mods!] that have a lot of people’s thoughts on WSs working with APs:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/667279/startup-woes/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/667431/minimization-rug-sweeping-and-comfort/

The big concern about continuing to work with an AP is "relapse". But I think you have a different problem here, which is that he hasn’t ended the affair:

when I ask him to check his phone (gets defensive or looks over my shoulder the whole time, says I'm pilfering), won't discontinue texting conversations with her, and still hasn't given me access to accounts. Idk what else I need to ask for in order to feel secure but I've mentioned these things to him multiple times and he's just kind of not listening? I don't know. He says he wants to repair the marriage and is all in but I require full transparency from him and he seems like he doesn't want to give it.

Won’t discontinue texting conversations with her? The fuck?

Everything you have asked for are minimum requirements. You need the access to the accounts. He can’t continue to text her. Or see her. It’s not that he’s not listening. It’s that he doesn’t want to.

We always tell people in this forum to watch actions, not listen to words. His words say he wants to repair the marriage, his actions say otherwise.

Finally, everyone here will advise you tell the OBS ("other betrayed spouse", her BH). He has a moral right to know - everyone has a right to know that they are being cheated on. Also, he told you, so you kind of owe him. But be forewarned, it may be against your best interest. As APs boss, your WH will almost certainly have violated company policies having sex at work. He has likely exposed the company to sexual harassment claims. If OBS reports them to HR, your WH could lose his job.

I’m sorry you are in an impossible situation. The right thing to do is tell OBS, but it may come at a real personal cost.

Just remember: if it does, it’s your WH’s fault. Having sex at work with a subordinate is an insanely irresponsible and risky thing to do, especially for someone who values his job over his marriage.

" i am honestly so codependent- I'm worried that if we just coexist in the house then that will cause more damage and he will just run back to her again. We had issues in our marriage before the A that I think contributed, but he's obviously shown that he is weak and I can't trust what he's doing while I can't keep an eye on him"

Let him. Your nervous system gets to rest… you deserve to take care of yourself and not have to obsess over what he’s doing. Work on ways to detach. The more you detach and focus on yourself, the more clarity you will have. Right now he is not a candidate for reconciliation. He has to show you that he’s committed to no contact and working on himself. Until then, you have to focus on making yourself feel ok. If he ends up going back to her … he does not care about your feelings and isn’t a person to reconcile with !

He’s not weak.

Please stop making excuses for his cheating.

ERC

I’m going to post what I had planned to post yesterday but decided to give it a day because I know what I will share now will paint a very bleak picture.

Just keep some things in mind:
What we share tends to be based on collective and personal experience. However, there are very few (if any) absolutes in human interactions and behaviors. It’s like… if I was to ask 10000 people if they had gotten more money out of the Lottery than they paid, the odds are quite high that all 10k would say no. But MAYBE there is one winner in the lot, thereby I can’t state that ALL lottery purchases are wasted money. So I cant say that what I’m posting will apply or happen, maybe you are that lottery-winner, unlike the other 9999.

First of all: It’s extremely rare that affairs just end permanently at d-day. I would put that at something like 2/10 at best. Yes – there might be a lull, as in they no longer sneak off to the office-supply room for a quickie, but the odds are EXTREMELY high that once they think it’s safe, or the opportunity comes up, they will start again.
It might be all innocent – like she asks him how things are at home, or he asks if her husband is still suspicious. Only small talk, and no physical touch. But there is still something that might make them reignite what was happening.

Even if your husband is honest – how do you feel? Do you feel capable of committing to the marriage, knowing he’s at a conference next week in the same hotel as his "former" lover? They hooked up at work, how are you supposed to confirm that’s not happening?
One reason we so highly tout total accountable NC is that it can provide the BS (namely you) a level of security or comfort. When he facetimes you in the evening from his conference hotel room, you feel safer, believing that it’s late and he’s going to sleep. If she’s at the same conference, then for all you know he’s calling her over once he’s off the phone with you.
So accountable no-contact after d-day is maybe one big reason that 2/10 affairs end on d-day… With no accountable NC I would lower your odds to 1/10…

Second: I guess that he and the OW think they have been so smart about it all and nobody knows… I can more-or-less guarantee that people at the office know… at least some do… They will have noticed how the interact, how she goes to conferences or trips she normally wouldn’t be sent to, how they aren’t available at the same time for long "lunches", that look, that wording… People know.

I can also share – based on experience in management and corporate life – that for a boss to have an intimate or close relationship with a subordinate is seen extremely badly. Frankly – it’s no less an issue than minor embezzlement or using illegal means to close a deal. Your husband has SERIOUSLY risked his career, and unless this is a total Douce bag and toxic work-environment then knowledge of this incident should impact his chance of advancement.
This isn’t based on any moral stance from the company, but a purely business stance based on the risk and lack of judgement he’s placing the company in.
Why? Well… was his decision to have her on the last travel based on a real business need or his sexual need? Was that $$$ flight and the $$$ hotel and the $$$ per-diem and the $$$ business-meal entertaining "clients" a real business cost, or was he having a great time on the company’s dollar?
Is he bypassing other equally or even more capable staff that could do a cheaper or better or more efficient job, only won’t let him have sex with them? Was her last pay-rise based on her work-capabilities or her oral skills? What about her last job-placement? Why have 2 people resigned from his department – employees with potential that they expected to be there for years? Maybe they didn’t see a chance for advancement because they knew of the affair…

What if now – as a scorned woman – she demands a raise? If he refuses she goes to HR and claims she felt forced by him to have an affair? That she felt threatened or made to believe her advancement and pay was based on her willingness to go along with it?
What if she’s dismissed? Right now, she has a great case for wrongful dismissal.
Basically – by having an affair with a subordinate - he’s enabled her to be in a position where she has A LOT of power over the company.

I can share how I have seen this handled withing companies over the 30 years I have been in various size corporate environments:
Depending on the managers past history and competence: The rule is that they are taken aside by HR or their supervisor and give an informal but stern warning. Clean up this mess and make sure we aren’t bitten by it. If he has a past or isn’t rated highly he’s given some Golden Parachute like 6 months pay for a voluntary resignation, or glowing recommendations. Or maybe 12 months later, when he’s been bypassed for a couple of promotions, he get’s the message and leaves on his own accord. he’s offered a post as manager of maintenance in remote Alaska…

The AP is also called in and asked what they want to do. They are questioned about culpability and willingness, generally moved to a comparable or better position in another hierarchy. This is the mildest – wow-we-got-away-with-it response. I can share this: I have seen significantly more managers leave a company after the discovery of an inappropriate relationship, than I have seen their AP.

The above long text trying to explain corporate culture is why I hesitated posting…

Our standard advice here on SI tends to be to let others know. To expose the affair. In this case at the very least confirm with her husband. Only I fear that you would be concerned he would let HR know and thereby endanger your husband’s career…
Well… Yes. That is true. That could possibly happen. But what could "possibly" happen versus what’s more-or-less destined to happen: With their ongoing contact you will be miserable, the affair will restart… That is about 99% certain.

So what can you do?

Honestly – I think you should try to reach a place of brutal honesty to yourself: People change careers and jobs more often than they change marital status and families.
To me the KEY to leaving infidelity is when one or both partners realize the danger and risk they are in, and decide to get out of infidelity. For that to happen, YOU need to feel safe. What can he do to give you that feeling?

Seeing as how he can’t NOT interact with her while in this job, and assuming that the business trips will come along and she will be on them… What can he really offer that confirms to you that they aren’t still having an affair?
Honestly I don’t see it…

MAYBE his manager should be told about the affair. Maybe the quiet talk in the managers closed office where he’s warned about cleaning his act is enough to make him realize that he’s not only risking his family (which he knew all along while having the affair but still did…) but also risking his career.
MAYBE confirm with the OW husband about the affair. Maybe he pressures her into a career switch. Assuming your husband is valued there then maybe the company would be all happy to promote her to another position elsewhere.
MAYBE exposing to the husband and/or the company get’s him fired… Well… at least you will know there is NC.

That comment about you (as in the family) needing his income:
IF he can’t prove to you the affair is over, and if he’s asking you to remain in infidelity… your only realistic option is out of this marriage. If that happens then what’s left of his check once spousal support and child support is paid is none of your concern.

I know all this sound harsh, but that he’s not being open with his media and can’t or won’t help you feel safe, and is prioritizing the safety of his career over the safety of his family doesn’t really make me optimistic.
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Finally:
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