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I also know that closure isn't a real thing in these situations, at least not the type of closure you get from anyone else. But man, I'd really like to know that all these years and all my work and struggles weren't in vain, that I didn't waste them on somebody who never deserved me. Unfortunately, I don't think that's coming. Is it really enough for you guys to know that you did your best to live up to your vows and act with integrity

It has to be. Because with people like your WH, there’s no conversation that could ever suffice. There’s nothing that undermines ‘closure’ more than trying to talk with people who re-write history. You end up more wound up and in the end you remind yourself why you had to turn your back to them in the first place.

Oldwounds says something that I think of as an essential part of healing. He says "I trust myself." There’s so much in that simple statement, but that is what you need to do. It means so many things, but in this case I think you need to trust yourself that your work and struggles were not wasted. You did your very best, and no body, no single one of us, can do more than that. Doing your best is its own reward, and it’s a demonstration of your quality. It may be cold comfort, but there is real comfort in the pride and dignity you can rightly claim.

It has to be. Because with people like your WH, there’s no conversation that could ever suffice. There’s nothing that undermines ‘closure’ more than trying to talk with people who re-write history. You end up more wound up and in the end you remind yourself why you had to turn your back to them in the first place.

You're right. And to be clear, when I said "I don't think that's coming," I didn't mean that I need or want a closure conversation with WH2. I'd like to not see or speak to him again. He has no remorse about the way he treated me - as you suggest, he's rewritten history to where I'm a villain and he a victim, so all of this was deserved - and subjecting myself to that would only hurt me.

But I would like to, I don't know, have a sign from the universe that he was a decent person and a good husband who lost his way. I don't believe that anyone in a marriage is blameless or happy 100% of the time, but I thought I was a good wife and that I made him happy for a lot of years. I know his actions and unhappiness over the last 18 months of cheating and whatever mental gymnastics led him there have everything to do with him, his character, his choices and his refusal to communicate, but it's a real killer to the psyche to think that the resentments and bad behavior could have gone much further back. Or that he's convinced himself (as I think he has) that I was emotionally abusive to him for our entire marriage.

I guess that's silly. It's not really going to make me feel better. I'll still feel discarded and used by a pathological liar and emotionally stunted fetish-chaser. Maybe that's the problem? That I feel incredibly stupid for thinking I had a happy marriage with a good and decent man and it turns out I was very, very wrong. Or, to your second point, that I *don't* trust myself anymore.

[This message edited by purplecheetah at 2:41 PM, Thursday, September 17th]

I definitely relate when you said it’s hard to trust yourself anymore. I think it will take time for your mind to adjust to the reality, and that’s normal. You’re not stupid for believing in him. That’s what you were supposed to do.
I also just wanted to comment on something you said earlier. The pressuring you for sex / making you feel guilty that you’re not doing it enough / laughing at you for being too loud / refusing to remove the jewelry that makes you uncomfortable during sex … all of those things constitute as sexual abuse. He was not respecting your body or your consent and comfort. I would explore that aspect with a therapist as well because that’s not an easy thing to deal with. you are worthy of being respected- you are not just a machine for men’s pleasure .

The benefit of him being goth subculture is that it’s a smaller community so you should oust what kind of person he is and hopefully they will shun him from their community too