SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are still so early on from your Dday
Your going to be on an emotional roller-coaster. Don't worry about being judged here. You will receive support here no matter what happens with your M. Its your life. This is a good place to vent and get feedback.

Hey Nuke

WW and OM’s spouse communicated more on Monday and my WW seems to feel "less bad."
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WW and OM’s spouse communicated more on Monday and my WW seems to feel "less bad."

Can you please expound on this Beetrain? Reads as if your WW feels the OBS is a b*tch and she's glad she was able to hurt the OBS, is this it or is it something else?

I think my WW felt better by letting OM's wife know that she's not a bad person, but she is. I firmly believe that she felt worse for the OM's situation than our own. But, through counseling, I kind of u/s that to a certain extent. But....she is not nearly the person I fell in love with, it's just me getting enough courage to pull the cord

To 1994:

I have read and re-read your private message at least 20 times and I cry like a fucking baby every time. I read it to my daughter twice and she nodded through its entirety. I hate that you are right, I do. But I thank God that you wrote what you did and that you reached out. Thank you and I hope that you prosper in life and that I can in some way "pay it forward."

I also hope to have an update to post in the morning. Thank you all. This site has been a rock for me. Hugs to everyone

How are you doing, Beetrain?

Hey Nuke - thanks, as always, for checking in.

I've come to realize that this journey/experience/trauma/shitshow....etc, is a rollercoaster of highs and lows. It's so much harder than I thought it would be. Mainly b/c 80% of my time and focus has been on my job and of course, my kids, while the other 20% is focused on how the hell I'm going to get through this intact and unfortunately, dealing w/the recent past and my WW on a daily basis. It's a complete energy drain to say the least. My son is in his first year of tackle football and playing for the A team in 7th grade - so I'm constantly driving to/from practices and going to games (with the entire family) while my daughter is on a travel fall basketball team - so we're doing the same with her just not as much as it's not nearly as demanding right now.

My WW and I share small talk, but nothing more. We both work from home so our weekdays are filled with awkwardness most of the time and when it's not, I always find myself wondering what she's doing. It's not healthy, I know.

According to her, she's done with the OM, but who the F knows and why would I believe her. We all went to dinner last night after my son's game and everyone was laughing and having a good time. Then, out of nowhere, my WW turns into a complete zombie - getting mad at my daughter and oldest son, and me (of course). Why? Because the kids wanted to sit next to me....nothing more, nothing else, nothing less....that's it. They wanted to sit next to me. MOst times, this wouldn't be an issue, but she's having big time self esteem issues, doubting herself as a person, partner and mother. She told me that she doesn't feel loved (heard that before) and feels no worth - "like why am I even alive" came out of her mouth. I'm exhausted and wish I could elaborate more. She's not a demon and a part of me even feels slightly bad that she's feeling this way. But, you reap what you sow - or whatever that analogy or saying is.

Regarding the D, I have the papers filed, just not signed and I honestly don't know why - aside from the fact that I'm delusional and hoping for a miracle. I know some of you have said, "just file" and it'll be "eye opening" or a shock to her core for lack of a better description / wording. However, I don't think that it will. We've discussed this ad nauseam and I'm still trying to get her to reason at a 50/50 split so I don't have to be a dick and ask for primary custody. I am just done fighting. I am tired. I am exhausted to be honest. I know I need to act and maybe in a sick way I'm hoping to catch her texting or talking to the OM again to make things easier to act on. I don't know, i really don't. I also don't know how this message is going to come across b/c I'm just so tired, and emotionally too drained to care about what I present as right now at this moment. Love you all and thanks again for everything you've done to get me to this point.

Beetrain,

Of course you are tired. This has been an absolutely life changing event. What I think is exacerbating it is the fact that you are allowing yourself to be held in emotional bondage by her....as you said...."In hopes of a miracle".

I would just encourage you to hold yourself and your children in high regard. Take actions that demonstrate self respect. Think about this....if your dear son was in the EXACT situation you were in....what would you want him to do?

How about your mother...would she want you to stay in a situation that functionally is abusive? Wouldn't she desire instead for you to be with a person who values you?

Peace friend....✌️❤️

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 1:36 PM, Thursday, September 24th]

We keep consistent as your accountability partner because 1. You have to - she’s not right in the heads and your kids deserve one parent with their crap in order 2. You don’t start healing until it starts getting behind you. As she’s not currently a reconciliation candidate this decision is more or less made up for you. Filing will break the status quo.

Think of it this way. Your kids deserve a happy and emotionally happy parent. 100%. Nothing less.

Right now you are doing your best but you are not 100% at your best due to the emotional toll this taking on you.

At dday2 when I snapped — I knew I had no choice but to D. I deserved better. My kids deserved a mom who wasn’t hiding in a closet crying every day. So I forced myself to stand up to him and put myself first.

I can tell you that had we D I would have been okay. Why? Because my happiness comes first and I made myself (not him) a priority after putting everyone else first for decades.

Game changer.

PS it took years but I am living my best life. And very happy.

According to her, she's done with the OM, but who the F knows and why would I believe her. We all went to dinner last night after my son's game and everyone was laughing and having a good time. Then, out of nowhere, my WW turns into a complete zombie - getting mad at my daughter and oldest son, and me (of course). Why? Because the kids wanted to sit next to me....nothing more, nothing else, nothing less....that's it. They wanted to sit next to me. MOst times, this wouldn't be an issue, but she's having big time self esteem issues, doubting herself as a person, partner and mother. She told me that she doesn't feel loved (heard that before) and feels no worth - "like why am I even alive" came out of her mouth. I'm exhausted and wish I could elaborate more. She's not a demon and a part of me even feels slightly bad that she's feeling this way. But, you reap what you sow - or whatever that analogy or saying is.

It’s only been basically a month since your first post. A month ago, she had two men who wanted her, and she was just running her finger down the menu like a diner at a restaurant saying "I’ll have this one."

One month later, AP has abandoned her to save his marriage and shown her that he never intended to end up with her. And you’re on the brink of divorcing her. Not to mention that her relationship with her children is forever altered.

Of course she feels like a bad person, partner and mother. She has been! I feel sorry for her, I really do. It’s so hard to watch someone author their own destruction so thoroughly. What a perfect example of Unhinged’s theory that infidelity is self-betrayal, with everyone else as collateral damage.

But she doesn’t have to stay that way. She could, at a minimum, try to clean up the mess she made. Instead, she seems to be wallowing in self-pity waiting to be rescued like some damsel in distress. You will not be doing her or yourself if you try to rescue her. She needs to make some hard changes on her own.

Don’t worry about how you come across. You come across as a good, heartbroken man and a great father. You come across as a fundamentally decent person. You’re good, brother. Trust in yourself, like The1stWife did. You’ll be alright.

A few things:

- As Bigger often reminds you/us, divorce is for one purpose, to fire her as your wife. Its a pink slip, nothing more. In many ways, a legal recognition of what has already happened.

- In your description of her, you say "she thinks", "she says", "she feels". Never about how you feel/think/want to discuss". This speaks volumes about her headspace. Its all about her. Common with WS's imo.

- The weariness/fatigue you feel will compound the longer you stay in limbo. This I know all too well. The years I spent in this state are the most wearying of my life.

I wish you well.

Just remember Beetrain, if her lover had been willing to leave his wife, your WW would more than likely be with him now. Do you really want to stay in a marriage that's dependent on another man's decision?

According to her, she's done with the OM, but who the F knows and why would I believe her.

Exactly! You can't believe her.

My WW and I share small talk, but nothing more. We both work from home so our weekdays are filled with awkwardness most of the time and when it's not, I always find myself wondering what she's doing. It's not healthy, I know.

Well, stop the small talk and awkwardness! Re-read the 180 if you have to. Can you go back into the office instead of working from home? Get space from your WW during the day. If you can't go back into the office, take your laptop and go to a place that has wi-fi to do your work-- coffee shop, library, etc. Why are you wondering what she's doing? She's already gotten a longtime lover- worst case scenario has already happened. Leave a few VARs around the house so you can continue to monitor your WW but get away from her during the day. Heck, she may try to re-establish communications with her AP and call him which you may be waiting for or she may call a friend/family member to discuss things and then you may hear her true feelings. She's not going to do any of this if the both of you are in the house.

What's the sleeping arrangement like? Still in the same bed at night? Or y'all sleeping separately? Please say separately, if not change that tonight!

Routine is the unknowing ally of Infidelity, Beetrain.

Waywards depend on their BS' routine to carry out their cheating and betrayal; even after being caught they want the BS to get back into their routine in order to get their life back to like it was-- back to normal-- in order to rugsweep. SO SHAKE THINGS UP! Your kids' routine is probably pretty well set but you can change yours. Pack your work stuff in your car tonight when your wife will be less likely to notice; and hide the VARs in the house where you think she may talk on the phone. Tomorrow morning once the kids are at school, talk to your WW about who is picking up who and taking them wherever they need to be after school for sports or whatever (keep it very brief)... then leave the house for the day. Turn off your phone location. Only use cash. Don't tell your WW where you're going and don't respond to any texts/calls unless it's a clear emergency. You seem to have trouble with the 180, make it easier on you by getting out of the house and away from her. Rinse and repeat each day. For nights, same thing- leave and come home at different hours. One night stay in and watch tv/read/spend time with kids...next night go back out. Keep your WW off balance while you detach and make the ultimate decision.

I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of money you will not have to do this very long. Either you pull the trigger on the divorce or your WW comes begging to you, asking to save the marriage. If she does, then it's your call and you better have your terms (IC with betrayal specialist, transparency with electronics, NC, written timeline, etc) ready to give her and inform her they are non-negotiable. If she wants to talk about anything else (before affair issues) just tell her "The time to talk about that was before you brought another man into our marriage. That marriage is dead. The only way forward is to create a new marriage which you haven't even said you're interested in." And then get away from her. She'll get the hint after a couple of times you tell her this.

Regarding the D, I have the papers filed, just not signed and I honestly don't know why

I'm going to assume you have returned the papers to your attorney's office but you haven't signed, in front of a notary, the acknowledgement in the petition and that the petition has -not- been filed with the District Clerk (maybe County Clerk in certain TX counties.) Take your time. I know you're tired and exhausted. Keep your attorney informed of what is going on. Have you separated financial accounts yet? Talk to your attorney about directing your paycheck to a separate checking account if it was previously going into a joint account. Protect what you can. I am one that believes by filing you will force the issue and end this tiring limbo that you're living in. Stop the walking on eggshells and do your best to flatten out the emotional rollercoaster by having a goal to work towards.

Stay strong.

I would just encourage you to hold yourself and your children in high regard. Take actions that demonstrate self respect. Think about this....if your dear son was in the EXACT situation you were in....what would you want him to do?

How about your mother...would she want you to stay in a situation that functionally is abusive? Wouldn't she desire instead for you to be with a person who values you?

Well said. Thank you for that perspective

vvvv

Don’t worry about how you come across. You come across as a good, heartbroken man and a great father. You come across as a fundamentally decent person. You’re good, brother. Trust in yourself, like The1stWife did. You’ll be alright.

Letmebefrank - appreciate all of your posts, feedback and advice. You are a good person - thank you.

--

- The weariness/fatigue you feel will compound the longer you stay in limbo. This I know all too well. The years I spent in this state are the most wearying of my life.

This is what I'm afraid of. Thank you for sharing, DT

==

PS it took years but I am living my best life. And very happy.

Hi 1st wife. Years for him to change, years for you to forgive or years of counseling before you two found happiness?

00

Just remember Beetrain, if her lover had been willing to leave his wife, your WW would more than likely be with him now. Do you really want to stay in a marriage that's dependent on another man's decision?

Nuke, I can't get past this post. I hate you for being so blunt, but love you for being so blunt. I 100% believe that had I never found out, this A would still be going on and I wouldn't have a fucking clue. Life would go on just as it had before, us fighting/arguing, her retreating to the OM verbally bashing me while he did the same about his wife. Fucking makes me sick

This uncertainty and indecision is a killer. I can tell you that in my case and many others not a lot changed until divorce was made a real possibility. Sometimes a spouse will snap out of it, and sometimes it's seen through to completion. In almost all cases the outcome turns out more positively for the betrayed spouse, whether it ends in divorce or reconciliation. Living in limbo and uncertainty is the worse outcome, imo, and it can stretch out for years.

I think your wife is just waiting you out and playing on your sympathies. She created this mess. She needs to fix it. Her rescue is neither your responsibility, nor is it possible. Only she can save herself. Right now some reality is hitting her square in the face and she's starting to wallow in this "oh, poor me" self pity. She's not thinking about the devastation you're experiencing.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean, friend. I really want the best for you. You seem like a genuinely good person. Take care of yourself and your kids. It's time she starts taking true accountability. If she's not capable of that you're never going to be truly happy staying with her.

[This message edited by Pogre at 12:01 AM, Friday, September 25th]

You don’t need to rush or follow suggestions. Enjoy your children and the family you have built. Healing from infidelity so soon after Dday is an internal process. Be selfish. Put yourself first. Your WW appears to be very selfish and only concerned with how this exposure affects her. She needs to demonstrate empathy for your pain, not wallow in her guilt and shame.

I find this really messed up friend…

I agree with fareast that it’s early days and you need to be comfortable with your decisions. But I think inaction and indecisiveness can be a real risk. IMHO you need to have SOME direction or goal to head for.

You had the cognitive ability to take out a 10K loan. Find, retain and discuss the issues with a lawyer. Prepare for filing. Sharing the situation with friends. I even think you have talked about this with (at least some) of your kids. Basically everyone is in the know except her.
Yet you can’t sit your wife down and ask what SHE wants…

Like… does she STILL want a divorce? If so why hasn’t she shown any initiative?
Do YOU want a divorce? If not, then why go through all the process but stop here? Note I’m not saying "stop at serving the divorce". I guess serving her with papers would be telling her what you want, but I see this last step as a big clue that deep inside you don’t want to divorce.

So what do you want? Only – base that on what’s being offered to you.
Like… if you were starving you might want steak, but have to make do with the cold porridge or yesterdays fish-leftovers because those are your options.
What do you want – and can you get it based on what’s being offered?
My suggestion of a talk with your wife is totally 100% based on you learning what’s on the table, and deciding from there what your options are.
If she tells you she’s still adamant on a divorce… Bingo! You have your path out of infidelity!
If she thinks that you two should try to work things out… Bingo! You have the ability to reconnoiter the path of reconciliation.

As-is what is happening is what I consider the ABSOLUTE worst "solution" that some misunderstand as "Reconciliation". It’s where you somehow manage to cohabit without dealing with the cause, the events and the effects of the infidelity. You ignore the knot in your stomach when she’s working overtime, she pretends nothing happened and you learn with time to behave like "normal" people. This never works long-time IMHO.

I read how you two sometimes discuss the divorce outcome… How you fear she wont accept 50/50 and all that…
Well friend – that’s like not setting off on a journey because MAYBE the road you want to take might be closed, but there will definitely be alternatives. You will EVENTUALLY reach your destination.

IF this goes to D you automatically start off with 50/50 and equal custody. It’s not something SHE or YOU decide. That’s the start-off point. She can demand 100%, she can demand full custody, she can demand the kids change paternity, she can demand you are doomed to wear a chicken-suite on Sundays… whatever…
BUT she will only get a) what a sensible judge deems reasonable or logical and/or b) what you concede or agree to.

So if you aren’t abusive, have documented health issues or whatever… it’s 50/50 from the go. No chicken-suite… Your attorneys or mediator have a clear vision of what flies and what can be negotiated, and a general rule is that the finalized settlement is passed to a judge who probably has an aide that checks it confirms to laws and regulations and has no funky one-sided conditiions.

I think you would be in a 100% better place if you had some clarity about your future.
She tells you she wants a divorce, does not mean you go and file tomorrow, but you know where your are headed for and will eventually file. She tells you she’s not sure… then again you know and can maybe put the filing on hold… but with some goal that has to be reached before taking d off the table.

Have that talk. Hear what she wants – but don’t focus on how SHE thinks it will be.

Thanks Bigger. A lot to unpack there.

We've addressed the D a few times, but she's 100% non-committal. She does not 'want' it, but isn't sure if she 'wants' to work on our M either - again, mainly b/c of all the shit that I allegedly/supposedly/I guess did to her with the hiding of alcohol and mistrust. She consistently/regularly makes it as if my behavior was and is far worse than what she did. I don't u/s it, any of it. I know that the kids are the biggest obstacle right now - not for me, but for both of us.