SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello everyone,

Just wondering about the 180. I listed some conditions for my husband to follow, some he has started some left to do (including telling one of the partners about the A), some longer term (therapy which I am not sure he will meet).

We are still in separate rooms, as I am still so angry. Anyway, I am being short and snappy with him which is a bit different from what the 180 describes . I have read it and know I feel my children are picking up on the tension. Also if he does meet the commitments when do you end the 180 and how did you all get over feeling resentment to resume a normal relationship. At the moment I am struggling to spend much time with him

I was very rude to my H during the 180 (except if the kids were around). After dday2 if he tried to talk to me I completely ignored him.

I did not eat meals with him. I did not help him or support him. I was very certain we would be D so to me, I didn’t need to try and "save" anything.

There was a huge wall between us because I was tired of being married to a lying cheating jerk who blamed ME for his unhappiness and justified his affair by blaming me.

I don’t think you are doing anything wrong here. You need to protect yourself.

I stopped the 180 about 2 months after I saw him making HUGE changes and recognizing he was making them on his own.

Those changes have stuck almost 12 years later b/c they were his idea and he knew to stay married, things needed to change.

I think the most power comes from the 180 when you treat the WS like they're no more relevant than the cashier at the grocery store, or a roommate you don't much like. The depth of interaction with the WS is completely surface level. You wouldn't do their laundry or make their lunch or listen to them talk about their day, or even snap at them. You wouldn't include them in dinner plans or cook them things they like. You wouldn't invite them on a family outing to the zoo, or even tell them that you're going to the zoo, or that you had fun. You wouldn't make demands of them to change. They're just...not important in your day-to-day life.

And you darn sure don't tell them that you're doing the 180. You just do it.

The real importance of the 180 is that it helps YOU to detach from trying to control the WS. You don't have control over anything they do, and you're training yourself to stop trying to gain that control. To stop doing the pick-me dance. Sometimes the bonus effect of this is that it causes the WS to wake up and realize what they're risking, but that can't be the aim. You have to really, truly want to detach from the WS for it to be effective. Otherwise, it's just manipulation.

^^^^^^

Agree with SacredSoul33rd. That is an excellent description.

Most of us are not rude to strangers. We just acknowledge them and then go on our way. Almost as if you are on a street and a stranger comes up to you looking confused and asks you for directions. You would give them the information they need. Might even tell them to have a good day. Then you go on your way and do your thing without giving much thought to them.

The real importance of the 180 is that it helps YOU to detach from trying to control the WS. You don't have control over anything they do, and you're training yourself to stop trying to gain that control. To stop doing the pick-me dance. Sometimes the bonus effect of this is that it causes the WS to wake up and realize what they're risking, but that can't be the aim. You have to really, truly want to detach from the WS for it to be effective. Otherwise, it's just manipulation.

This^^^ the 180 is for you to gain some distance and begin detaching not to wake the WS or teach them a lesson. It will help you gain clarity of what you want going forward and you will see him more clearly. If he does start working on himself you can make a decision then whether you would like to pull back on the 180 or if you are using this to help you leave it is very effective.

Let go of the script of the 180. I know it’s touted a lot, but the actual 180 script was made from a grifter website. You can’t follow the 180 as it’s written because it’s contradictory "don’t believe anything your spouse says, but also listen to them as the Will speak only in absolute’s because they are hurting and scared".

Also, the 180 isn’t some magical tool that will flip your spouse over into R. Grey Rock/180 are for you, to escape abuse. Which cheating is. The way it really works is you stop giving a shit about your spouse. Stop doing things for him. Stop engaging. Not to punish him, but for you to break your tie with him so you can make the decision you need to. Whatever that is. Stop feeling guilt for him being upset or trying to make him feel better because he is upset that you are upset about him cheating (not saying this is what is going on but it’s extremely common post affair). I really recommend you stop feeling guilty for being upset, you should be.

Don’t be short and snappy with him. Just be matter of fact. "Kids need to be at school at 5 for soccer practice" "I’m going to dinner with my friend tomorrow night, food for the kids is in fridge" etc.

Don’t worry about if or when you will get over it. You may never and that’s ok. You get to decide when it’s enough. Your cheating husband can’t do the small things you ask, then you decide when you say the hell with it.
Everyone’s timeline is different, but if you know in your heart where you are, then don’t fight it.

Go see a lawyer, go see a few, you don’t have to put them on retainer but it’s always good to erase the fear of unknown of divorce. No you don’t have to tell your WH you did. He lost that right by cheating.

"I’m going to dinner with my friend tomorrow night, food for the kids is in fridge"

One slight revision:

"I have plans tomorrow evening. Food for the kids is in the fridge."

He doesn't get to be privy to the details of your life anymore.

The 180 saved me and changed me in so many positive ways. The main thing is I am no Co dependent on her. I know I can make it with or without her. My W hated the detachment, she needs reassurance, and being a people pleaser she cannot stand the idea of anyone being mad at her. A few months into R I noticed that she was constantly on egg shells, she would not stand up to me about anything, she was so afraid of me leaving. One day I asked her to get something while she was at the store and she forgot it. When I asked for it she fell apart crying and apologizing. I knew it was time to truly enter R and level her up in the M. I told her I am not leaving unless I discover any lies or dishonesty. I told her I wanted better communication, I want to know how she is feeling even if its not something I want to hear. Since then she has been solid and our communication is better than its ever been.

Lemonpie, all of the advice you've received thus far would be good... if not for the fact that you husband is an alcoholic with a history of mental and physical abuse toward you and the children. I know you say that he's not smacking you and the kids around anymore (or as much), but my concern for you is that even if you do succeed in the calm detachment that is being advised in these comments, the only reaction you will get from him is an escalation in his abusive behavior once he feels that he is losing his grip on his ability to control you.

In your last Dday thread, when you were seriously contemplating divorce, I had planned on commenting to advise you to pretend everything was fine while secretly seeing a lawyer and preparing your escape plan... because once you've made up your mind and committed to leaving, that's when your husband will become very dangerous.

I would go so far as to say that what you're doing now-- staying with him but playing manipulative mind games with him (which is essentially what the 180, as written, is) and being short and snappy with him-- is worse than committing to staying or going. It's exacerbating the already anxiety-filled climate that your kids are already suffering in. And I have no doubt that when you poke the bear enough times, it's going to lash out and bite you.

I really think you need to make a definitive choice. Stay with him and become the doormat that he expects you to be... or hold it together for as long as you need to (even if means playing nice and pretending that you're a doormat) while methodically planning your exit.

You need to accept that the outcome you want-- which is him becoming sober, loving, and devoted husband and father-- is not going to happen.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:56 PM, Tuesday, March 11th]

if not for the fact that you husband is an alcoholic with a history of mental and physical abuse toward you and the children.

I answered based on my own experience with the 180. If what Blue is saying is the case, the 180 is not right for this situation. You need to be away from him. R is not a possibility with an abuser.

if not for the fact that you husband is an alcoholic with a history of mental and physical abuse toward you and the children.

I answered based on my own experience with the 180. If what Blue is saying is the case, the 180 is not right for this situation. You need to be away from him. R is not a possibility with an abuser.

I answered based on my own experience with the 180. If what Blue is saying is the case, the 180 is not right for this situation. You need to be away from him. R is not a possibility with an abuser.

Ditto.

Have to agree with the others. If he is even remotely emotionally/physically abusive the 180 will backfire and he will lash out at you at some point. You need to seriously think about saving yourself. I know you think you are stuck, but in reality no one is stuck there are ways to get out of this and thrive. I would not poke the bear I would be silently planning my exit and do not let him know any plans of it. My xWS became intolerable when we were IHS and I was planning to leave. Then he harassed and stalked me after I left. You are going to have to be smart and strong. Get a counselor's help and speak with shelters for abused women. You are not in a normal or healthy situation. He is never going to change.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 4:55 PM, Wednesday, March 12th]

Don’t want to hijack the thread but is it ok to attempt the 180 with the WS just staying in our frog and me in the main part of the house? He works from home (I don’t) and our kids schedule is so crazy it makes no sense to have him somewhere separate right now as it would put more shit on me.

Don’t want to hijack the thread but is it ok to attempt the 180 with the WS just staying in our frog and me in the main part of the house? He works from home (I don’t) and our kids schedule is so crazy it makes no sense to have him somewhere separate right now as it would put more shit on me.

Absolutely! Lots of people do the in-house 180 to stay sane.

Thank you everyone, I don’t feel the relationship is abusive in a physical way, things got out of hand when it first came out. We were both badly regulated but I don’t feel afraid of him any more. I do see some narcissistic traits and he can be manipulative and obviously the addictions are a problem. I don’t know what I am doing, I have set strong conditions and he is trying to meet these.

However, today I am really upset as he was allowing me to talk to one of his partners to act as an arbitrator anyway, it came out that she has gone to work in the other office that he moved to (where she supposedly never goes) after I said I was going to ask his partner if she ever went. He is angry and annoyed at me now and won’t give any more details, on how many times etc. he doesn’t feel this it’s important for me to know and just adding fuel to the fire but if I am to stay with him should I know? Is this really helpful to know if it is more than text messages?

He is adamant it was just a few text messages, but would she really say she loved him back after just a phone call and not speaking to him for months. In those message he also says I am passive aggressive and he is unhappy at home. I can’t unsee these but I can’t seem to end the relationship. What is wrong with me?

Lemon,

There is nothing wrong with you, you are in a relationship with someone who isnt on the same page as you. He is manipulating you and still gaslighting you. Look at what you said, he, the cheating husband, "allowed" you to talk to one of his APs. He has no right to say anything about that, and is now making it your responsibility for him being hurt. This is again because he cheated on you. And if I’m reading everything right between you and BTB, he has already physically hurt you.

Right after something happens, the abuser will play nice, extra nice. Apologies, crying, promises to change. Promises of how they will never hurt you again. Especially when they feel their partner is leaving, it will only be more so. But it won’t last. Soon enough, they will lash out. Accusations of punishing them, or that you are selfish for not forgiving them. Then your head is spinning because you feel like you have done something wrong. You haven’t and you know it.

Look, he freaking cheated on you and he has the audacity to be angry at you and call you passive aggressive. That isn’t remorse. That isn’t respect towards you. Things get uncomfortable and tough and instead of moving mountains for you, or at the very least being kind, it’s right back to anger. Anger is a tool for control.

This is what I was saying is the real purpose of the 180. It’s not to make him do or be anything. It’s for you, to escape the emotional entanglement of abuse. To escape the feelings that are keeping you trapped so that you can make a decision based on reality not feelings.

It’s hard, it’s terrifying. It hurts. Trust me, I know, everything I have written is something I’ve gone through myself, still going through it. The real test of change and remorse isn’t when everything is going well, it’s when things go bad or when challenges to them come.