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My H's decision making skills are getting worse and worse. He is purchasing a new truck, which in my mind should be fun (other than dealing with the sales people. No offense if there are car sales people on SI :)). He has been wrestling with this purchase for over a year. Diesel/gas, Black/gray, blah blah blah....... He has ordered and cancelled twice. I'm not kidding, we have been to Ford dealers over 30x's. This is not something new. Years ago I had to walk in and buy his new motorcycle because I refused to go back to the dealer for the umpteenth time. Last week it was a new shirt. 4 visits to the store. He's afraid to make the wrong decision. He's afraid that something better might come along. He's afraid of committment. I used to joke that I wasn't worried about him spending money because I knew he couldn't/wouldn't pull the trigger.

Which brings me to this. When he does this it triggers me. He says he cheated partially because he had second thoughts about being married. He cheated just after our first anniversary. Seventh year together. I struggle with thoughts that I was just another decision he made then regretted. I've pointed out this behavior of his and how its not normal. He's conscious of it now and apologizes, but it doesn't stop.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone else's partner struggles with this. How do you deal with it? How do I not take it personally? What causes a person to be so wishy washy? It's confusing because when it comes to business he's very decisive and confident. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but I wonder if there's something in his makeup that contributed to his A.

I think too much!

My H is exactly the same and I put it down to how he was raised, his father especially would laugh at his ideas (still does) mock him when he makes a wrong choice, purchase and generally try to make him look small for making his own choices.
My H has always been and is dreadful when it comes to making choices about anything whether it be buying a pair of jeans to car insurance or purchasing a new computer.
This part of him doesn’t particularly trigger me it just angers me more than anything because he makes such a big deal of things then I end up getting angry and making the decision for him and he’s then content with the fact that if something goes wrong with that decision then I’m the one to blame. I’m always fine with that.

I guess we all have little personality traits that are good and not so good, I recognise that after betrayal we do overanalyse everything but in all honesty I would not take anything personally.

With regards to an A, my H said he never made a conscious decision to be in one he just found himself in it then needed to get out.

I struggle making decisions only in one area - choosing a paint color. I over analyze etc. but I finally make a choice and it mostly is the correct color/shade.

I make myself crazy over a stupid paint color. 🤪😂

Other than that I make decisions easily.

Choosing a vehicle for me is easy - I like one brand and model and I bought the same vehicle twice lol. Same color too.

I don’t think affairs are decisions people make via analysis or anything other than pure selfishness. I see it as an ego boost to the cheater (how sad).

Some people you kind of see their potential to cheat. I have told my H in the past about people I had a gut feeling were cheaters. Sometimes even the first time I met them. My H would say "how can you know that?" And marvel when I turned out to be right.

I do not have this issue but I do have the insight of a ws work.

I think you are likely right, this analysis paralysis, and the need to make the "ultimate" choice with things is a patterned behavior that points at issues that could potentially tie into cheating. It also coul be entirely his relationship with money that makes certain areas him being worse in this.

Cheating in my opinion is the manifestation of many areas of decision making and coping. My experience was more like what 1st wife said- it was less about making rational conscious decisions and more about throwing caution to the wind.

And in that way I wonder if it was just the opposite with his affair- a rebellion of this careful analytical thinking? I can see a parallel because my people pleasing perfectionism was a burden. By doing what I wanted without regard to that burden was the ultimate escapism.

When I think about escapism, it’s not about escaping your spouse or your family or whatnot. It’s an escapism from the hell that is your brain.

I am decisive, always have been. But ruminations, worry, constantly worried about how others feel and think was the things that kept me from being my authentic self. I could see how analysis paralysis is a similiar thing.

Has your husband done therapy? The reason I ask is when I went through therapy I expected to talk about the cheating. We instead went on a journey of my childhood and young adulthood. My conditioning was to do these things to survive in the chaotic dysfunctional family I lived in. I had been programmed to be on alert of people’s feelings exploding or what I might be criticized, screamed at or cussed at about. Then the programming is automatic and continues far past its expiration point. Instead of learning to cope or understanding what was personally about me, I just learned these behaviors made me feel very safe.

I imagine that’s what it is for your husband too. Some learned programming that he might make the wrong decision and the irrational fear comes from not having the ability to trust himself for some reason.

I still struggle sometimes with what other people want versus what I want, but I am light years away from where I was 8 years ago. How did I do that? I reciognized my own programming, where it originated and how it affects me today. I have had to learn to be mindful of my motivations and when I am spinning in the mud. Therapy did that for me.

Depending on what therapy was used for if he went earlier in it may be a good thing for him to to recognize these tendencies are actually excruciating for him and that he doesn’t have to keep reacting to these things the same way that he has been trained to.

I absolutely think where there is dysfunction that paralyzes your authentic self, whether it be my people pleasing perfectionism or his inability to commit to decisions, it creates potential for unwellness than can as I said manifest itself into careless, senseless, reckless behavior because we need a break from who we are trying to be. The problem is when we cheat or cope with food or gambling or drugs, it doesn’t lead us any closer to being able to freely be our true selves. To be peaceful or content.

So I do think it’s likely a clue he has more work to do in order to be the best version of himself- meaning confident, authentic, and having peace of mind. It may not result in cheating again, I do feel some people experience so much pain from that they just choose a different crutch. But ifor him to provide you with safety and security he needs to do that inner work on himself because that burden can continue to send him into times of unwellness that can lead to undesirable habits and behaviors.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:52 PM, Friday, March 7th]

Thanks HO,

No, he has never had IC.

I don't know that he really thinks it's a problem for him. He justifies it by saying that he's being prudent and wise about very important purchases/decisions. I can't disagree that researching before action upon a decision is smart, but when it gets to the point where you aren't actually deciding on anything I think you have a problem.

I can't honestly remember if he had this much trouble in our early years. When I had asked him on DD why he cheated the only answer he could tell me other than IDK was he remembers feeling uncertain about being M. Thinking maybe he had made a mistake. Personally, I think this is a lie he has told himself to wiggle around the shame. He did it because he wanted to, but that sounds cold doesn't it?

It's very likely his issues with indecision came after the fact. He has spent many years avoiding personal responsibility and accountability. It has had a huge effect on his confidence and self-esteem.

In the end it is what it is. I look for answers where none are to be found. Trying to make sense of things.

He did it because he wanted to, but that sounds cold doesn't it?

No it doesn’t sound cold. First that is always true. I did it because I wanted to. I have said that many times since I have been here.

I had to dig deep to figure out why I wanted to though. Very rarely would anyone come out of an affair saying it was worth it. It sounds like your husband really didn’t do that introspection and so you have not been given any other answer.

I think you are not wrong that the problems are related. I don’t know that it means he would ever cheat again, but it does mean that he likely didn’t dig enough to find those correlations in his personality. You are more emotionally intelligent than he is and I just wanted to confirm I think you are likely dead on right.

I doubt there was a deep thought out process because affairs are about hiding things from yourself. But the FOMO likely was underneath it all.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:56 PM, Wednesday, March 12th]

@hikingout

I went through therapy I expected to talk about the cheating. We instead went on a journey of my childhood and young adulthood. My conditioning was to do these things to survive in the chaotic dysfunctional family I lived in. I had been programmed to be on alert of people’s feelings exploding or what I might be criticized, screamed at or cussed at about. Then the programming is automatic and continues far past its expiration point. Instead of learning to cope or understanding what was personally about me, I just learned these behaviors made me feel very safe.

How long into therapy before you started to really understand what you had done, what it did to your husband, and how you could adjust/apply to your current state to make a better future?

My WW has been in IC for several sessions and seems to be improving over time, but it's like trying to watch a glacier move. I feel like I know where she'll end up, but I don't know if we'll be able to stay together while she's taking her time getting there.

Also, on the main topic, my WW is also horribly slow at making big decisions. She always wants more time. It took her 2 years to pick out a kitchen table for our new house. And that was with me nagging her (which I don't want to have to do ever, but she has rules about me "picking anything out for the house").

Hmmm.

So therapy helped but it wasn’t my only activity. It was a slow process. Think of it as never being able to see the big picture at once. I would have an epiphany about myself, and once it was a pattern I was conscious of and watching for it would lead to another discovery. And it was a repeat of that cycle for at least a year before I could tell you a good narratives of the way my thoughts, perceptions, actions, led me down a path that I abandoned my values and commitments. It wasn’t the full narrative I know today, but it was a big picture in place without the nuances and small details that got filled in over the year since I started living more consciously and intentionally.

Remorse - which to me was realizing the damage also took some time. I was at about 6 months before I realized it was trauma, and then from there until a year my ability to add a lot of details of all the ways I hurt him filled in.

Keep in mind I put myself in therapy for two months before I ever even told him.

Change is slow and yes it can further damage the bs while they are waiting.

Even ws who does the work diligently will often be more in their emotions about what they did and how it damaged them at first. I think about the first six months and it was him over there in shock, sadness, anger. And during that time I was trying to unwind lies I had told myself, trying to get past enough of the overwhelm where there was even space for that remorse to come in.

In a perfect world, people wouldn’t cheat. The next best thing would be for them to be alert, aware and ready to take responsibility from day one. But the reality is the ws has so many overwhelming feelings once their deeds are exposed, the affair implodes, and all that bullshit they told themselves they are often underprepared to take it all in at once. I did my best to be loving and listen but I had no idea why I did what I did or just how deep the damage was until some of that overwhelm subsided.

That being said, you do not owe her anything. If your dday is close to your join date it would not be unusual she doesn’t have the answers but it will be some time before you know if she is worthy of reconciliation. I think usually 6 months to a year is true for me and many around here. Some ws do better a little sooner, and some never do it at all.

If you ever have other questions I try and monitor them in the I can relate forum "BS questions for ws". I am sorry you are going through this but no matter what your wife is doing you can work towards your healing. A year sounds excruciating to you right now, I have no doubt.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:16 PM, Wednesday, March 12th]

He's afraid to make the wrong decision. He's afraid that something better might come along. He's afraid of committment.

Which brings me to this. When he does this it triggers me.

What causes a person to be so wishy washy? It's confusing because when it comes to business he's very decisive and confident.

I don't know that he really thinks it's a problem for him. He justifies it by saying that he's being prudent and wise about very important purchases/decisions.

One thing that both my husband and I have learned, and it's probably true about others as well - when there is a situation that is going near somewhere we had early FOO problems, we are not able to function wisely. We THINK we are functioning wisely, but we are reacting to a world that existed a long time ago, doesn't exist now, but seems to exist now (when you start with a conclusion then it's easy to find evidence that it's true and ignore evidence that it isn't).

Example for me: My kids have to be really sick before I will notice. When I was little, I soldiered on when I was sick or hurt because I would have been shamed for asking for help. You read about this - I had a broken arm for a week (and it was painful!) before a teacher noticed I was writing with the wrong hand. My kids have learned to compensate for this. One of my older daughters will get out the thermometer and tell me to make a pediatrician appointment for a younger sibling. Of course I'm trying to do better, but it is helpful to be aware that I have this problem and for my loved ones to be aware and to help me. When I'm tempted to think there is no reason to go to the doctor for an ear infection, they don't prescribe antibiotics anyway, it is helpful for me to know that my thoughts are probably disordered and I should listen to other people.

Example for my husband: He believes it's his job to make the peace at work. It WAS his job growing up to have no needs and keep his mother happy, this pattern is firmly based in a previous reality. There is a new co-worker who has issues with rage and everyone except my husband is terrified of him (he and my husband have a great relationship because my husband will calmly listen to his rage and then carry on with problem solving). We were talking about it and I said the obvious: you think your job is to work peacefully with him, but at some point, your job is to let your boss know that this is really a problem. If you keep shielding, your boss won't be able to address it. To him this was revelation! He said I am an emotional genius. I said, it's stating the sky is blue, but thanks.

I will probably never be good at noticing when kids are sick, and my husband will never be good at knowing the difference between when to stop making the peace and when to say something, so we have learned to rely on each other (and other people) when we are near situations where we are likely to have obscured vision.

I one million percent agree with HikingOut that the analysis paralysis is patterned behavior that is rooted in something deep in him and your suspicion that it is somehow related to cheating.

Which means that you have some leverage to urge him to get help getting insight with this. For YOUR sake.

You can say: Please listen to me when I tell this is not normal behavior. Please trust me because I love you and I know you: this is not the behavior of a person with a peaceful mind. There is something wrong. Because we are married, your difficulties, your problems, directly affect me. I am living a less-good life than I otherwise could because you are avoiding responsibility for this issue. You need to hear from others (friends or professionals) that it is not normal, you need to understand where it came from, you need to be able to identify when it's happening, and you need to seek and accept help when it's happening.

And tell him about the trigger. That it is painful to you and you need a different narrative to explain why he had the affair, other than he had regrets about marrying you. That you need a coherent, complete narrative where all the jigsaw pieces fall into place. That figuring out his strange behavior is something you need to heal.

It's a constant, constant, constant peeling back of the layers of the onion. Work and rest, get insight and apply it, death and resurrection. The work doesn't end. But each time you go through a difficulty it's so much better on the other side.