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Hi all, so I am remaining semi firm in my boundaries. We are in separate rooms and I have said we are separated to him. He has actually disclosed to his family that he was caught again which is massive.

Anyway he keeps asking for a cuddle or this morning said ‘are we still separated then. He has now not drank for a week. I said no to the cuddle.

He also keeps saying he doesn’t want a divorce and it will be all my fault if we do. He was like I got none of the good stuff from her (sex) so I guess in his man brain texting her he loves her is nothing.

I have put the ball back in his court and have said I am done with coming up with suggestions. I said I need to either for us to move back to my home country or he quits his job as I can’t continue with what has been or else I am going ahead with a divorce. I need time before I do this so the kids can finish the school year.

I think he keeps texting me and asking me if he should look for flats I say to him do what you want and then I get asked the question again and again. Are you definitely divorcing me if so I will get a flat. I have just stated that in order for us not to divorce this is what I need.

Is this the right way? Unfortunately we live in a very expensive area so would be a real struggle for us bot h to live separately.

[This message edited by Lemonpie at 1:46 PM, Saturday, March 1st]

It would be better if you were implementing a decision one way or another. What is holding you back? Do you really think he will give up alcohol? If he does, do you think that will be enough to stop his cheating?

Right now you're acting undecided. Does your behavior match where you are in your decision process?

If you're still undecided, that's what you say you're showing, and that's being honest and 'real'.

If you've made the decision to D, my reco is to stop thinking about the barriers to D and start think about how to get around them. If you're really undecided, so be it.

Recovering from being betrayed is not easy. It takes time, and it can get messy. You aren't violating any principles by being undecided. It's a stage in your recovery.

Hang in, Lemonpie.

Thanks Sisson, I am undecided you are right. This time though he is telling loads more people. He has even told his work colleague and they are all telling him the same thing, you are an idiot. He is finally seeing how silly it is for a 40 year old to be chasing a 24 year old and he has other men telling him that.

I have asked for space and have asked him to move out for a week but I know this may give him opportunity to be with the AP, I just really need to think things through.
It is weird that it has taken him two years to wake up

Actually I think I just get pulled into hoping he will change. He has drank again tonight and when I said I thought you were giving up he said only during the week and then started to go on about how unloving I am and how I refused to give a cuddle today.

I was just talking to a friend how I always get pulled into thinking he will change. She felt my relationship was abusive but he did make some good changes the verbal abuse calling me names stopped and him controlling my phone stopped. And I felt stronger and able to pull him up on things after the affair as I felt he actually doesn’t want me to leave. I also have a bit of a temper if I am really pushed so felt we were both a bit toxic. more recently I felt drained by his drinking and hearing what a bad wife I was every night.

[This message edited by Lemonpie at 2:40 AM, Sunday, March 2nd]

He only changed to manipulate you into doing what he wants. He’s abusive. He won’t really change.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 12:07 AM, Monday, March 3rd]

He is continuing to show you exactly who he is. You must decide how many times you need him to show you before you believe him.

I feel like he is light years away from where you need him to be. If he complies for any length of time he will do it until the threat of divorce is over. A person who will work to make the changes primarily do it because they do not want to be the person they are. Your husband is a pig in mud as long as he has you for his security and home life and he can do anything at all he wants.

I don’t know if he has been to therapy or not but he sounds like he has something that allows him to not have a conscience. I think most ws have something at least temporarily going in like that but your husband’s issues are more profound. He is telling you if you aren’t doing exactly as he asks that you are to blame for his behavior. He is taking no accountability nor does he have any empathy towards you.

Honestly, I am no mental health expert but this sounds eerily like how narcissistic people find highly empathetic people and exploit that for their own purposes. Everything inside you is telling you to get away, but his programmatic abuse of you is fighting you by considering his logic and whether the problem is if you are meeting his needs.

I think time and space may help you grow stronger and that’s why he is trying to push you to make a decision he thinks you won’t make. He doesn’t want you stronger he wants you empathetic and confused. This man is so toxic, and is nowhere near safe to keep yourself around. He has driven this relationship in the ground and keeps putting you in these positions in which you have to decide. But he banks on your sympathy not allowing you to move forward. You must find a way to break this cycle for yourself. If it wakes him up, great but I would not hold my breath. He is constantly testing and pushing and there is no peace for you to continue living like that.

I know you didn’t want to do Al-anon but I think it would help you a lot to see your situation in others. At the very least read up on co-dependency and how to break out of it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:22 PM, Monday, March 3rd]

In his mind YOU, the betrayed spouse, are the cause of all of HIS problems.

That is the cheater’s way of easing their guilt to the point they have none lol.

I saw this in my H during his affair. For 6 months all I heard from him is "I want a D". But yet he did nothing about it. Because he wanted ME to pull the trigger so he could tell himself that I was the one who D him.

As though his lying and cheating had nothing to do with the decision.

I am sorry you are facing this situation and having to be the "bad guy" because the cheater refuses to stop cheating, stuck to boundaries etc.

You need a spouse who acts like an adult. Not an adult that needs to be treated like a child because that is how they act.

Lemonpie

Based on what you have shared over the years then I agree your husband will only change to the level that he thinks he has to while still maintaining control.
This is reflected in his drinking. I don’t know if he’s an alcoholic or not – although I do think a lot of his actions indicate he is. But an alcoholic will try his best to negotiate both with others and himself that drinking isn’t really a problem. Like... they will agree to cut down on the drinking and only have beer rather than vodka, or only drink on "special occasions", or only after six... They might even stick to it, but then you start finding empty vodka-bottles hidden around the home, explanations on how Tuesday is a special occasion and so on.

I think this is one of the main reasons AA emphasizes that an alcoholic acknowledges they don’t have control and can’t control their drinking and therefore have to find their higher power (although usually interpreted as a deity like God it can be any spiritual or inner power of choice) that can help them in total abstinence. Basically – an acknowledgement that they are not in control.

Your husband is negotiating everything – most obviously his drinking, but equally clearly his marriage. Things he really can’t control...

Your hopes and wishes and dreams and all that... Well... as-is you might as well be building them all on the hope of winning the lottery. Who knows – you might eventually – your marriage is your ticket... But it would make more sense to base your future on reality and attainable goals.

I encourage you to set yourself some firm goals with milestones and deadlines.
I read from your posts that your main wish might be to save the marriage. Well... don’t make THAT your goal. Make getting out of infidelity your goal. You might eventually reach that goal married, or single. Main issue being that when you get there you are content with your journey.

Like divorce. Set a date for when you will file. Not too far away – but definitely within the next 60 days. Start gathering relevant information like credit-info, account statements, credit-card status, lease, mortgage, tax returns... That day is a milestone.
Once you file and he’s been served you have another milestone maybe 30-90 days in the future – it’s your call depending on what he’s done. That might be the date you have the process go to the next step.
That in turn creates a new milestone, and that milestone another one...

The future milestones can be relative to his actions, and most importantly your wishes based on the reality you face at each of them.
Like... your wish to remain married wont really be realistic if he’s still downing booze and being disrespectful. Your wish to get out of infidelity should prevail.

Frankly – despite me stating I cant know if he’s an alcoholic, I actually think he is...
I think his attitude to drinking and the effort he places in dealing with that can be your best marital-commitment barometer. I would want to see a period of committed and accountable sobriety before I gave your marriage a chance of survival. That period is a minimum of 60 days sober, so even if he started today I would still be preparing for that first 60 day milestone I suggested.

Ma'am, I am so sorry you find yourself here.

There are certain defining moments in your life that will set the trajectory for the rest of your days. You are at the epicenter of one of those moments.

Based on what youve described, this guy is nowhere near where he would need to be in order to be reconciliableñ material. Read some of the posts here of truly remorseful waywards and yoy'll see how far away he is. He is fiddling while Rome is burning

That said, you say:

Is this the right way? Unfortunately we live in a very expensive area so would be a real struggle for us bot h to live separately.

Unfortunately, divesting yourself of an unremorseful traitor WILL cost you, but can you reframe this? Look at it as a necessary imvestment in your future, which it most certainly is, and that you are worth that investment.

Strength to you to do what is needful.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:32 PM, Wednesday, March 5th]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. He is adamant he doesn’t want a divorce and it will be all my fault and ruin the kids- and I know it shouldn’t but it does impact on me. I get so annoyed by this and get sucked into arguing with him that is it actually his fault which I know isn’t helpful.

Anyway after discussing with a friend I have given some non negotiable a for us to continue.

-he is adamant he doesn’t want to divorce. I don’t think he is an alcoholic but has addiction tendencies, he is a big gambler (he is good at it but as our finances are so separate I never know of his losses but he has made some big wins) used to smoke and used to smoke a lot of cannabis.
Anyway I have set a goal to get out of infidelity as Bigger suggested first, and I have asked him as a last attempt to be open with the other partners in the firm that he cannot have any contact with her. He is contemplating this idea.

I have also said he has to get help for the drinking,
And full access to his phone and finances, he seems ok with this. It is like the threat of divorce and me being very serious and remaining completely separate for two weeks, separate rooms etc has woken him up

It hasn't woken him up, though, because he needs to think about it. IOW, think his way out of it, in all likelihood. Come up with an alternate plan that might just satisfy you enough to get his way.

He needs hard boundaries, not something to mull over.

I can always appreciate that people need to go through their own process in regards to saving their marriage and their own complicated reasons to do so. I have to say though I think you are very understanding and he continues to take advantage of that.

I m glad you will put your foot down on the drinking. Maybe they will send things into a better direction but is he in therapy at all? Your husband needs more help than just getting away from alcohol.

This is one of the conditions I have set-he needs to be in therapy to get help with the alcohol. I go from being understanding to being really angry and stand-off ish and then moaning about him to close friends and family (I then feel so guilty about doing it). he was so fixated on people knowing the first time. It was like all he cared about was what people knew and who had I told not that I had a very public embarrassing breakdown.

I think what I find confusing is he also swings from ‘I am so sorry, I have hurt you and it is totally my fault’ to it is your fault, you told people, you don’t love me etc etc’. I feel sorry for the vulnerable part but then swing back into anger which then pushes the angry defensive part in my husband. Like we had a serious chat today where I laid out his options and he went and got a bottle of wine he said to cope and was full of self-hatred.

You are dealing with his addiction. His addiction will
Always Always Always come first until he decides to change.

That being said, he doesn’t appear to be able to make the choices you need right now.

I suggest that you stop trying to get him to do something he’s not prepared to do. Instead figure out if you want to remain living with him or married under the existing circumstances.

The reason I mention therapy is he sounds like he has some sort of disorder. The reason he oscillates is he knows what you need to hear and then the mask slips and he says what he really thinks.

I can appreciate that being confusing for you as this is someone you have married and love. But you are right to stand your ground on these things because a) he still shows his petulant behavior b) he is just waiting for you to calm down. Stick to your guns I promise this is not anything at all to do with you. And if he doesn’t eventually find his way to better coping and accountability then you will remain in a cycle of abuse.

Agree with the two responders above. At this point it doesn't look like he is changing anything or helping himself. You are going to have to let go of whatever expectations you have of him and focus on yourself. He has to want to change and get better you will be unable to help him with this. Maybe find an Al Anon meeting where you will find some support with living with an addict.

Honestly the way he blames you for everything I would pack up and leave. This is a life of misery ahead for you if he makes no changes.