SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Question from my wife yesterday. We were having a pretty emotional discussion and she delivered this question with some anger. I had no idea how to respond. At some level I feel like I have done what I can to try and understand what she is experiencing, but obviously I have not been very effective at this if she is asking the question.

I get that this journey is not linear for either of us, but have been feeling like I have fucked things up so badly that although we may stay together the relationship may never be what either of us want.

I realize we are only five months past DDay and that is early days, but that question really knocked the wind out of me.

No stop sign, so if you want, we could try to give you some idea from a BS side.

What you understand of what it feels like and what you would like to understand more?
NO irony, just offering genuine help in getting insight.

No stop sign is intentional. Looking for both WS and BS perspective. I have spent hundreds of hours on forums, reading books, videos, therapy, etc and we have talked many times so specifically looking for why the question would come up now and in a way that was filled with anger. Feels like despite all my efforts I really am not getting it.

Because this is mostly a reconciliation website which was created by a reconciling couple I am a little hesitant to recommend this book.

This book goes into great detail the emotions a betrayed person goes through and where those emotions originate. It will be difficult read for you.

The book is titled "Cheating In A Nutshell - What Cheating Does To A Victim" by Wayne and Tamara Mitchell. You can also find it on Audible Books at Amazon as well as paperback and Kindle.

Good luck to you and your BS.

OTOH, when did you disclose your A? 4 months ago?

You probably don't get it yet. My reco is to ask your W what you're missing that she wishes you got. I mean that as a genuine inquiry, not as a way to put her on the spot. If she can define it, then you've got a guide to what you can do next. If she can't define it, the discussion will probably surface new tasks or a new approach you can - maybe even need to - adopt.

Recovery is a marathon, not a sprint. You prepared to reveal your A and deal with the consequences, but that was really an impossible task. After all, you couldn't predict your W's responses.

*****

At 4 months out, I didn't get what the A did to me, and my guess is that the impact is still in its initial stages for your W.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:31 PM, Monday, January 26th]

I think men and women have different brain chemistry about this stuff, and that you may never, ever fully appreciate what you have done to her, the devastation you have wrought.

And maybe she has to understand that you’ll never fully get it.

Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t keep trying, though.

Best wishes.

No stop sign is intentional. Looking for both WS and BS perspective. I have spent hundreds of hours on forums, reading books, videos, therapy, etc and we have talked many times so specifically looking for why the question would come up now and in a way that was filled with anger. Feels like despite all my efforts I really am not getting it.

I want to help you out, your question comes from a place of empathy, wanting to understand your woman and how she feels and why she feels you do not get it.

I will respond with empathy trying to explain what emotions and physical symptoms this trauma does to a person (from a man perspective but most traits overlap between sexes).

But not knowing you I can't really divine what you "got" and what still "miss".

If you can make a short list of what you learned until now I can try to fill the blanks

I get that this journey is not linear for either of us, but have been feeling like I have fucked things up so badly that although we may stay together the relationship may never be what either of us want.

If you're telling her this -- then yeah, not helpful at all in any way.

Of course, there is a chance the M doesn't get rebuilt. It may be indeed be over.

However, the M has no chance with the surrender of "I messed up so bad, we'll never make it back" type of feedback that gives a betrayed spouse nothing to work with. It looks like "woe is me" instead of any concern for your spouse. It looks like the work to get back to a healthy relationship is too much for you.

My wife's take was, she broke it, she will take the LEAD on fixing it.

And it is a tough ask, because it requires you fighting a multiple front battle, with a possibility the M fails anyway.

You are working to repair yourself, heal yourself and be a leader in showing your BS the M can and will be better if you both are fully dedicated to better days.

Plus, you'll need more patience than you've ever utilized before, because even when a BS WANTS the M, it is so many steps back and forth, learning to trust themselves again, learning to trust you again.

My wife was relentless.

Imperfect for sure, but she always got back in the ring and tried again, and again.

That effort became an everyday investment in us, and after a while, I believed in her work and her effort and then I moved to match her intensity for a better M.

That was TWO years after dday.

When someone turns away from the M, it takes a great deal to show that if there is another crisis, you'll turn toward your spouse instead of away from her.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 9:35 PM, Monday, January 26th]

I'm going to give you a seemingly nonsense zen answer.

The only way you are going to "get it" is to understand that you will never really "get it". BS myself, but I think this is sort of an important bit if you are going for R.

You have done more damage than you can reasonably conceptualize. So no you don't get it, and you won't. But if you can grasp this idea to some degree, it's as good as you can do.

I get that this journey is not linear for either of us, but have been feeling like I have fucked things up so badly that although we may stay together the relationship may never be what either of us want.

You're not on the same journey. What she's going through and what you're going through are nowhere near the same. The paths taken by betrayed and wayward spouses in R are extremely different.

Yes, you have fucked things up; your affair and then decades of deception.

Deciding what you both want in your relationship isn't likely to occur until she has recovered from the shock and started to heal. Give that at least another year or two. Of course, it's entirely possible she might wake up tomorrow morning and decide she's done.

As sisoon mentioned, I doubt that your wife "gets it." I took me a few years to understand how surviving infidelity affected me and what I've learned about myself.

Most BS seem to get rather exasperated by their WS not "getting it." It's not quite so simple to summarize what this means. However, in short: the love of my life became my worst enemy.

The average BS at this stage is still in shock, the rollercoaster of emotions is still fucking hell, it's difficult to feel or function like a normal human being, PTSD is kicking in full swing, and...

...it's all your fault.

Getting that?

Definitely was not getting it. Had a longer talk and surfaced some things that have been building for a few days. Our adult kids were with us for a little over a week and we had not really talked during that stretch. Neither of us do well when we are not talking frequently. We are also out of our area for a number of weeks (warmer weather) and that has resulted in IC less frequently (I am doing mine infrequently on video, but she has paused until we get back) and those sessions seem to help us both talk more productively.

We actually moved from this general area last year and it has some triggers for her since DDay. She loves the area and wanted to be here, but part of my full disclosure included places and dates and we have been by some of the places. We both definitely underestimated the impact that would have.

We are both in a better place after talking today. Monday is IC for me so had that via video today and that helped facilitate our conversation. I still flight being avoidant and rewiring my brain after so many years is a process that frustrates me as I want to be better as quickly as I can.

Thanks for the input and definitely helped me realize I was missing the mark.

However, the M has no chance with the surrender of "I messed up so bad, we'll never make it back" type of feedback that gives a betrayed spouse nothing to work with. It looks like "woe is me" instead of any concern for your spouse. It looks like the work to get back to a healthy relationship is too much for you.

I do think you have to find a way to become the optimistic force that can be her rock through this. That would be difficult this early in, so use that as a strive for, not a I should’ve this already.

I also think sometimes bs are processing and we can be antagonistic sometimes just by existing, other times because it is a divide of journey in many ways.

Resilience is something that you have to keep building on and when you have it, you will feel more stable for her to lean on.

This is a natural part of the process, nothing is going so wrong here.

It's been barely 2 yrs since DD and I'm just beginning to settle down. 5 months is fresh.

Your wife and I share many of the same issues of finding out decades after the A.

I can resonate with the triggering of returning to the city where you lived while cheating. We retired and moved at the time of my H confession. We both grew up in the same town and spent over 60 yrs there. Both went to the same HS (where we met). We spent 40 yrs building 100's of homes in that town. I can't drive around without constantly being reminded of each year of our marriage by the homes we pass. And with each memory comes the reminder that I was being deceived that whole time. I'm pretty sure he doesn't think about these same things. I guess that's how I would say he doesn't "get it". It wasn't just the act, it was the deception. That is what messes with me most. It's not just a bar or a hotel that triggers me. It's our WHOLE life together. Every single day he breathed next to me knowing what he had done and saying nothing. No one to hold him accountable. Not only do we have to deal with betrayal, but we get the added layer of wondering whether the past 40 yrs were even real. Unless you've been betrayed, I don't think you can ever get it.

But with that said, he has done a miraculous 180. As crushing as this has been for us both, he remains strong for me. He doesn't wallow in self pity. He owns it. He is very intentional about our marriage and our family. I could easily get stuck in the darkness, but he works hard to help me navigate this confusing landscape. His actions are sincere. I wouldn't tolerate anything less.

I've come to understand that he is a classic dismissive avoidant. I lean towards anxious attachment. What a combo. :) Like magnets. I push he pulls. It has helped me to understand him better. To understand me better. Us. Our relationship will never be the same, but I'm not sure that is necessarily a bad thing. We have done some serious housecleaning and there have been some really good changes. I just need to work on focusing on the now and storing the box with our past in it on the shelf.

Keep up the hard work. This is a hard journey, but with love, honesty and intention, I think you can come out in a better place. Be patient and strong for her.

Hi feelingverylow -

I'm going to give you a seemingly nonsense zen answer.

The only way you are going to "get it" is to understand that you will never really "get it". BS myself, but I think this is sort of an important bit if you are going for R.

You have done more damage than you can reasonably conceptualize. So no you don't get it, and you won't. But if you can grasp this idea to some degree, it's as good as you can do.

I like this "zen" response because it basically summarizes the situation that you are in.

As others have noted, even your wife doesn't fully understand yet how she feels - it's too soon after DDay.
I'm 20 years out from DDay, and I still occasionally learn things about how I feel regarding the affairs.

As a simple recent example...
There is a song that was quite popular around our DDay, and is voiced by the male AP about an affair with a married woman. I couldn't stand listening to it - major trigger for me, and still is. My wife knows this. The song came on the radio recently while we were both traveling in the car together. And there she is, humming along with the song! My hope was that she would be sensitive enough to change the station. But she's just not tuned in to affair trauma in the same way that I am as a BS. Over 20 years, I've simply come to accept that reality.

Here's something practical to consider...
My FWW was doing an IC session recently, and the counselor asked her to write down the ways that she thought that her affairs had impacted me. She listed about 10 ways, which were good and on target. And I was happy that she shared them with me, and thanked her. But, the reality is that I could have written down 100 ways for a list, maybe more. And I simply told her (in a loving manner) that she would never fully understand how I feel about her infidelities, despite her best efforts.

But anyhow, since your wife asked "do you even get it?", the exercise of writing down the ways that she was impacted might help you begin to understand the BS perspective a bit better. And that in turn that might help you to help her more.

Good luck - it's nice to see that you are on the right track.

As others have noted, even your wife doesn't fully understand yet how she feels - it's too soon after DDay.
I'm 20 years out from DDay, and I still occasionally learn things about how I feel regarding the affairs.

Feelingverylow, this is interesting, and I second this.

Still don't know exactly the picture you had but I can give you a similar example to mr Paws:

Background
I was in my 20 when she betrayed me (first time), now I am in my 40, 17 years, so a really long time.

She is Polish, I am Italian, different languages, culture, histories etc.

Before her I would not be able to point Poland on the map, and I met and 'knew' several Polish girls previously, it was just still some Eastern European country with exotic, beautiful girls, like most those countries are.

I met her, fell in love with her, I discovered Poland: I devoured its history, learned the land, culture, started to learn the language (which is not easy), I went there and I explored everything every time I visited, drinking details of her city, observing people, families, wanting to make friend with Poles (men and women alike, I wanted to see how men treat their girls to make 'her feel at home with me'- spoiler -> in most case it kind of sucks [and vice - versa] but I was optimistic), I treated it like I treat one of my projects. Passion, knowledge, understanding, care for details.

Is like I adopted her entire culture since I met her, and I was looking forward to create a life there, something I never considered before, I never liked Italy (and also Europe) for many reasons, but my friends were mostly in US and Japan, so I always thought I will create my business and then move to one of those countries, keeping "home" as vacation and family of origin place.

Basically I truly fell in love with her background and roots too. [End BG]

Then she has sex with the Other Man, after few months she came back to me, and I did the unthinkable for me, I took her back.

17 years passed, we're driving and I see a maintenance truck a bit further up, and I casually comment "why does that truck look so repulsive, I feel almost slightly nauseated" and she responds "maybe because it's the colors of the Polish flag" (it had red and white diagonal stripes on the back) and I initially scoff at it, just thinking it's just an ugly pattern.

She then asks about what I feel seeing the Polish flags (that are all over in the capital) and rationally I assumed I had no problems, since I met her I always liked it, I was sponsoring Poland to other foreigners and presenting its beauty etc.

But I am receptive to other people insight so how my mind works I check their assumptions no matter if they challenge a staple in my convictions.

And I realized with my surprise, I have "phased out" the flag (White and Red) for all these years, is like when you look at something repulsive that surrounds you but you are not really looking. And I started to look at the other things connected here is what I realized repulse me:

- Stop signs, wrong way, etc (red - White). If there is another color, like black, with the red and white has no effect, is neutral
- Santa Claus (red - white)
- Red white candy canes (for my daughter, I never buy those, which was weird because they are 'the classic')
- Since I moved to Poland I stopped "discovering it".
- Refusal to learn the language (Weird for me)
- I love parties, since I came almost never leaved home, is home - work - home. I lost interest in going out here.
- I can't stand Polish men. I used to see them as friendly, now the only guys I know here are Americans, Brits, Argentinians, Ukrainians, Arabs, basically only foreigners. I am politely social but I keep Polish Men at a distance. Unconsciously, but now I see that.
- My feel about Polish women also took a hit. Worse, since the way girls often look at me, I feel a pinch of disgust to their attention. And I could not explain it.

And the most ridicolous of all -> Coca Cola - Never been a fan of soft drinks and sodas, don't like them as I prefer water, but Coca Cola was my pick if it was available. Since her betrayal I never bought a cola for myself, if ever I bought a Pepsi. If I drink a cola the taste is not pleasant, it's really like swallowing a medicine. Even cocktails with cola, I avoid them since 2008, and I used to like those at parties.

It's "subtle" but I realized is there.

So even 17 years after, no matter what happened to me and my old traumas and the fact that I am detached from my wife and I see her as just a a woman, almost a stranger, surely not the person I used to love, that generally I do not care, the Betrayal Trauma wounds run deeper that I could ever imagine.

I clearly have no full recollection of what else might have been changed and ruined in my life, but it's a physical memory, those are body reactions, irrational, not conscious.

She has likely similar scars, hopefully this adds a helpful perspective.