SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m Just a few months after learning of wife’s physical liaisons with her married AP (his second marriage; we are each others first and had been happily married for 16 yrs or so I thought) and sometimes private gym trainer…and this discovery was after first discovering a few months prior the actual affair (that did not supposedly become sexual until later on and after discovery of the initial affair)…awful stuff, large cash payments, made him sandwiches a lot, told him he was her soul mate etc, wrote him what a grand a father he was on Fathers Day (the irony), - I mean just over the top stuff, some of it not fit to even write down.

We have been doing relatively well considering, of course up and down days but doing fine, living in same house, shared phone passwords now, enjoying each others’ company, and managing a household full of children. She’s doing IC and is learning about her weaknesses.

But yesterday, I talked to my wife while she was at a gas station that I know to be a place where her and AP used to meet - and it was a time of day they used to meet as well (right after day care drop off). When we got off the phone, I decided to make the close drive and just check in - not real proud of my desire to surveil her but it is what it is - I just want to uncover things now if they are going in behind my back still..,

anyways, I saw his car coming from the station as I almost was there. It was obvious to me he had been there, but I had no physical proof. I acted like I had more cards than I really did and called her to ask if she had seen him there (she had just exited as well); she was adamant that she had not. I told her to call me when she was ready to tell me the truth and we hung up. We talked again in few minutes and she was again adamant they had not seen each other. The third time, when i told her I had seen it, she finally came clean and said she lied because she panicked and knew I’d be upset she was at that station.

It was not a good day as I took the rest of the day off work and we/me basically litigated the whole thing again. Yelling, reminder her of what she has done and my pain. It is obvious we are hanging by a thread.

I do believe her on that point, station is on main road to and from his work and house and used to be our main station as well. But again, we are 8 months out from initial discovery and she’s lying still.

Whatever happened or was said at their meeting, whether it was premeditated or not, the one actual fact I know is that she lied to me about seeing him.

I guess I am mostly ranting without a question…I’d welcome any comments on how to think about this. Is there some grace there that I probably could have given? I could have overreacted.

Is there any point to ask her to not go to that station? If they want to meet up they can do that wherever they want. But what rekindled their former relationship between the two D Days was a supposed random encounter at the grocery store (where they used to park and make out) - she has stopped going to that store on my request.

[This message edited by Anonymous4231 at 2:30 PM, Friday, December 12th]

I think you might be too early in to really post in the reconciliation forum. I think it more reflects your wish, rather than where you and your marriage really are.

That is the first line in my advice to you on your first post.
This action by your wife just confirms I was correct. You aren’t in reconciliation. I need to talk very directly and in what might seem like a harsh tone. Just remember this is done from care:

Do you really think the place is the problem?
Do you really believe it wasn’t premeditated?
Do you really think that it was a coincidence that your wife was at the same station she previously used to meet with OM at the same time that OM was there?
Think it was a coincidence that they left the sation with a short gap in time?
Think it was out of fear of having unintentionally seen OM that she lied?
Think that if you get her to agree to never to use that station again then she and OM won’t find another place?

Friend – you really need to take what you are dealing with seriously if you want to get out of infidelity.

Do this quick check: Ask your WW what she got at the station and ask to see the transaction to her card. Chances are you won’t get that info, because they didn’t meet there by coincidence to fill up the car.

I encourage you in the strongest way I can on a digital forum: Go back to your first tread and read what I suggested there. If you don’t like what I posted, then at least find someone else that also posted and follow their advice. Although I think I was spot-on, then nobody offered worse advice than what it sounds like you are following at the moment.

Added this:
Why meet at stations and grocery stores?
If OM were single, then why not at his place?
Maybe because his wife or partner might disagree?

If so – have you told her what’s going on?

Might sound frightening and yes – it might drive your wife away from you. But if he was so committed to her, then why isn’t she gone already? Our collective experience here supports that in about 9/10 instances where (especially a WH) is exposed they dump the AP and focus on saving their marriages.

I agree with Bigger. It’s past time you told the OBS. If she goes off her rocker then that’s your WW’s problem to deal with. As in if it does become a problem she gets told it’s her problem and she has to deal with it.

Sorry you are going through this. You’ve received great advice. Please do inform the OBS of the A and continuing contact. She deserves to know the truth of her M and life, so she can make her own decisions and regain her agency.

Always value yourself. Do not do the pick me dance. You can’t control your WW. You cannot nice her back. You can control how you respond. Set your boundaries and keep them. Take care of you and your kids. Implement the 180. She is still deep in her A.

Please note that we aren’t telling you to divorce or to kick your wife to the curb.
We are suggesting you take action to get out of infidelity. The suggestion I made in your first post offers your WW the chance of following you out, but YOU need to be open to the FACT that if she decides to remain fixated on OM... then you need to keep moving, even if that does eventually lead to a divorce.

Please tell the OBS! That's how I had confirmation of FWH's A. Let the consequences land where they may.

Absolutely tell her that certain places are off limits. And then verify as much as you need to. Yes, she could continue to meet him elsewhere. But the truth always comes out eventually.

You gave her an opportunity to fix what she broke.....that is incredibly generous when you think about it. Hold her accountable for that.

Also, it is not unusual for a WS/AP to break no contact to say goodbye....happened in my case. In my case, FWH got a burner phone to say goodbye, which I discovered. He lied about what it was for...so I called the phone company in front of him and inquired about the last numbers called - with him having to give permission for them to give me the information. It was quick to discover. I also placed a VAR that day, unbeknownst to him. What I heard was hours of him calling himself a dumbass. Since then, I didn't see any other contact between them....but OW stalked me, so there was that.

Are there other instances?

Sounds like you're very early days here. JFO was really helpful for me then. Gotta put on your surveillance and investigative hat here....she doesn't seem at all safe. You deserve to be as all up in her "privacy" and she will have to just take it, until you do....IF reconciliation is for you. You can tap out at any time and so can she.

I can say, we have recovered from FWH's temporary insanity with my former friend....H and I that is. FF can pound rocks. I can happen, but it took a metric fuckton for both of us.

I'm so sorry you're here.

Other than having video evidence, this would be good enough for me to determine the affair never ended or has started back up. I’m not going to tell you what to do, but strong, decisive action is what is warranted here. If you still have not informed the OBS, that needs to happen yesterday. Damn the consequences.

You finding out that she met the OM again is actually a gift, in that it allows you to reset your entire approach to reconciliation, which hasn’t been working.The reconciliation clock has been reset to zero.

It is an opportunity to throw out the old bad strategy, and come at the problem with a new one. When you do that you want it to be like throwing a switch. You want it to be obvious.

I recommend Bigger’s approach.

Yelling

The yelling isn’t working. The temptation will be to yell louder, to double down on your failed approach.

The right thing to do will be to stop yelling. To acknowledge that on her current trajectory that the time for yelling has passed and the time for separating is here. You’ve flipped the switch.

That will be more impactful.

HouseOfPlane wrote:

The yelling isn’t working. The temptation will be to yell louder, to double down on your failed approach.

The right thing to do will be to stop yelling. To acknowledge that on her current trajectory that the time for yelling has passed and the time for separating is here. You’ve flipped the switch.

That will be more impactful.

This. When my wife really turned the corner was when I calmly told her that I was releasing her from her marital obligations so that she could be with OM and do whatever it is she wanted to do. She just wasn't going to do it while remaining married to me.

I was very calm, matter of fact, and never raised my voice. While I didn't do anything bad ass like go and make a sandwich afterward, I did start calling lawyers and real estate agents and started setting up appointments right in front of her. She broke down in a way I'd never seen her do before and begged me to not go through with it.

From that point on there was a dramatic shift in the power dynamic. I had spent the previous 2 weeks humiliating myself playing the pick me game and realized it was getting me nowhere. She had all of the power. I think my calm, matter of fact demeanor had more of an effect on her than yelling, getting excited or flipping out would have. She KNEW I meant it. She did not want a divorce.

That's when she really rolled her sleeves up and got to work repairing the damage she'd done. OM was kicked to the curb with extteme prejudice, blocked on everything, she transferred to a new work location, and 8 months later she's stil as close to a model candidate for reconciliation as I've read about on these sites. I ended up canceling those appointments.

I don't know what your wife may or may not do if you do something similar, but there's a saying here that I think is very true in most cases. If you want to save your marriage sometimes you have to be willing to let it go. You want to get out of infidelity as soon as possible.

I whole heartedly agree with Bigger in that there are worse things than divorce, and sharing my wife with another man, even if the physical aspect had stopped and it was only emotional, is intolerable to me. I didn't really want a divorce, but I wanted to remain in infidelity even less. If that ultimately meant a divorce, then that's what I was prepared to do.

If you haven't told the other betrayed spouse yet, then I think you should do so ASAP. Wouldn't you want to know? How would you feel if you found out someone else knew about your wife's infidelity, could have told you, and chose to keep it from you?

While I didn't do anything bad ass like go and make a sandwich afterward

Haha! I do suggest that once the speech is done you do go make a sandwich , although I doubt many have the emotional detachment doing so might require. The key behind me suggesting culinary experimentation is to simply show how determined you are – to show that you have thought things through and realized that of the options her actions are allowing you to chose from then THIS is the least bad and that you are moving on while following that idea.

Note I didn’t say "good" or "best" – it’s lease bad. In a tragic way – it’s like the options the unfortunate located above the impact zone on 911 that had to decide between burning to death or jumping. Neither "good", but you might decide one is less "bad" than the other.

The problem with a lot of couple-interaction (and basically human interaction too) is that we strive to win arguments, rather than to resolve issues.
It’s like in college and high-school you have debating clubs, but no arguing clubs. When you debate the goal isn’t to win, but for the right proposition to win. If the person you are debating with can convince you with reason and logic that his stance is correct, then you might concede the debate and you two work from there. When you argue it’s about winning, and if you aren’t winning on logic and reason you tend to try to win on pain.

Once you have told your spouse that they are free to follow up on their infidelity there really isn’t anything to debate. Not unless you are willing to listen to some "logic" about monogamy being unnatural, marriage is an institution limiting the freedom of the participants or whatever. Basically the options put in front of you by your wife were (a) your wife continues to secretly meet with OM while pretending it’s over or (b) you pretend not to notice when she’s late home or constantly parking at the rear of service stations and grocery-stores and act like you two are happily married. She forgot YOU have the third option, and that’s refusing to remain in infidelity. THAT is the option we are suggesting.

For her to justify her actions to herself she needs fodder. That fodder is gained through arguments with you. Not debates – arguments. Like "You have never been attentive" – how can you argue that? "Well... I said your dress was nice 24 days ago, and I opened the door for you last week..." It’s a pointless argument, meant to cause the pain she needs to feel fine with her affair.
Refuse her the argument. "I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on the marriage then that would definitely need to be addressed. Seeing as how you are committed to your infidelity there isn’t any need to go there" and then go... make a sandwich.

Something I remind myself all the time:

There’s not always a good option, but there is always a best option.

Best wishes.

[This message edited by Formerpeopleperson at 6:25 PM, Saturday, December 13th]

I agree with others, you are still mired in infidelity. I know that's terrible to hear but at least you know now. And it isn't rare for. WW to be in the fog for months.

To get her out of the fog you need to take strong action. Things like the 180, inform the other BS, see a D lawyer and let your WW know about it. Make sure her IC understands infidelity and is not one who blames the spouse or marriage when their client has an A. Lots of counselors are poor and do this, so beware. Then consider separation and or D if she does not respond to the other strategies.

Are those things hard to do if you love her? Yes. But right now you have three people in your marriage and the third one is her AP. Take action to get out of infidelity.

Your current state of mind is too "nice". You feel bad you checked up on her. You are wondering if you should tell her to avoid that gas station. Those are signs of someone who is too passive, too kind. It's great to be kind and gentle but not when your wife is seeing another man. Time to get selfish, time to take action and send clear signals that her having another man in your marriage will not be tolerated. "If you want him you can have him. I am meeting with a D lawyer this week and will move forward unless something changes".